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SetDai |
Ranma's Age |
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I don't know if this is really worth a new thread or if it's already addressed in another one, but this is a question that's been haunting me for a while. Many summaries I read put Ranma's age at 16, but so far I haven't seen the age mentioned in the manga or anime. The ages for Akane, Nabiki, Kasumi, and Kunou are all clearly stated (and Cologne's to a point, depending on whether she's 100 in the manga or 300 in the anime), but so far not Ranma's. Did I miss something in them, or did Ms. Takahashi say it was 16 or something? If not, I have some trouble believing he is 16. But I'll get into that when someone gives me some info on it.
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Hooray |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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The Age Mushroom story specifically says that Ranma is 16. There was one point where Ranma debated whether or not to eat a 17cm mushroom, which would have made him a year older (Kuno ended up eating it, causing no change.)
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SetDai |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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Thanks, Hooray. I completely missed that point in the arc.
I have to admit, though, it still seems odd that Takahashi would make Ranma 16, and try to get him married at that age. Then again, being the author, there's no set rule that she has to go by Japanese laws and customs in creating the story. After all, she had him nearly married to a duck they all thought was Akane. BTW, what I mean by Japanese law is that, under their laws, males are only allowed to marry at a minimum age of 18 (20 without parental consent), which would make it awkward for Ranma to marry at 16. Akane at 16 wouldn't be a problem, due to a female only needing to be a minimum age of 16 (again, 20 without parental consent). Like I said above, though, there's no set rule that she the author has to abide by this. |
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Drawde |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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Are those the current, ages? If so, remember that Ranma 1/2 started in 1987.
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SetDai |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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Actually, Drawde, it's been part of the Japanese Civil Code since its drafting in 1896. The law comes under article 731.
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DemonEyesLeo |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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Interesting. But, as you said, this is the wonderful world of fiction, everything is at the creator's control. Besides, aside from the near duck marriage, Ranma and Akane are only "engaged."
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kumahachi |
marriage | ||
Quote: But ended in 1996... I can't imagine Ranma and Akane been married at 16 neither. The messed marriage at the end was just for fun, as they're too young and not ready for that, and it was just a ceremony in the dojo with no priest or official papers. Nothing official so, just another Soun's capricious idea. |
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SetDai |
Re: marriage | ||
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Like I said, kumahachi and Drawde, the law has been in effect since _18_96, so when the series began or ended has no relevance. This was all up to the author.
Not that the series was big on sense, but I think it would have made more if Takahashi had made Ranma 18. It would make the marriage laws non-issue and still work with most, if not all, the other situations. I invite you to debate with me on this point. It should be fun. |
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Solomons Nightmare |
Re: marriage | ||
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I believe that there have actually been several exceptions made to the Japanese marriage laws. It has been some time since I last debated the issue, though, so I'll have to go sorting through my sources again to verify the fact. Be that as it may:
Quote: Legality is already a non issue in the Ranmaverse. There is no indication that the society which Ranma and company inhabit even possesses legal infrastructure - certainly it lacks a body dedicated to upholding it. Happosai's antics never earn him the attention of the police, nor do Ranma's frequent fights. The Gambling King is able to legitimately claim the Tendo dojo despite 'winning' it from a five year old boy who didn't (and couldn't) legally own the property. Hordes of teenage boys assault Akane every morning before school, yet do not earn the ire of the law. Akari sends her sumo pig rampaging through Nerima without a thought for the legal consequences. The thing is, if there is a law in Ranmaverse Nerima, there isn't anyone around to enforce it. Illegal acts are neither punished nor prevented. The law lacks the one thing that could give it credence as law - the capacity to govern the conduct of people's lives. As I've said before, Ranma 1/2 doesn't take place in Japan, it takes place in a twisted variant that is not even beholden to the same physical laws, let alone the same social and legal conventions. In the Ranmaverse, one can get rid of a cold by simply sneezing in someone else's direction (thereby passing the cold onto them), and parents do not care if school is regularly disrupted by a single problem student. Nobody seems to have financial concerns, and a boy can lose several inches instantly by being doused with cold water. Normal men and women can be launched high into the air and yet walk away without severe injuries. More than 365 days can pass, yet characters will not age a year. Your fingertips, Moving gently to my heart, The force of Life goes on and on. The song remains, Like a haunting melody, Of angel music held in chains... - Joanne Hogg, Stars Of Tears |
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MikoChan |
Re: marriage and society | ||
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Your right Solomon, I can't think of a single story in which a Police Officer even appears, even if only briefly. In the Anime, I remember a Police Officer appearing in a short filler between the time when Ryouga and Ranma's first fight in the series, and when Ryouga goes to the Tendo Dojo for the first time, but that doesn't count.
If you were to apply real social laws to Ranma's world (though I am not completely familer with the current Japanese legal system), I would imagine that many of the main characters would find themselves under arrest quite frequently. If the Japanese legal system is anything like the American legal system, some of the charges that could be brought against them may include: Child endangerment/neglect Assult Assult with intent to kill/Attempted murder Assult with a deadly weapon Destruction of public/private property Public indecency Larceny Theft Fraud Breaking and entry/Criminal trespassing Kidnapping |
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Solomons Nightmare |
Re: marriage and society | ||
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You can probably add 'illegal immigration' as well, since I doubt Shampoo is in Nerima with a visa.
Your fingertips, Moving gently to my heart, The force of Life goes on and on. The song remains, Like a haunting melody, Of angel music held in chains... - Joanne Hogg, Stars Of Tears |
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SetDai |
Re: marriage and society | ||
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Hey, Solomon, it'd be interesting to see those exceptions. See if you can find them as soon as possible.
Responding to your reply to that quote, you're right about the shear amount of bull that the characters get away with scott free in this series (although one could argue that no one knows what happens between chapters, which I won't because it's one nasty can of worms.) Criminal legality certainly isn't an issue in this story. Civil legality, I'm not as sure about. The Gambling King incident is a prime example. I don't know if honor or civil law had a hand in actually permitting the Gambling King to take possession of the Tendou Dojo, because if the Tendou clan had accepted Ranma's explanation about the King cheating to win, would they still be honor-bound to turn over the dojo? It's a tricky situation in my opinion, and the answer is not so cut-and-dry. Anyway, the debate I was actually looking for was if making Ranma 18 could or would cause discrepances in Takahashi's original story. Debating the topics you're bringing up sounds fun, too, but I still want to discuss this point, too. Hopefully we won't get too far off the subject. |
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MikoChan |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
Quote: Well, if Ranma and Akane were both 18 they would either be in their last year of High School, or already graduated. Kasumi would be 21, Nabiki would be 19 and no longer a student (unless she decides to go to college, but that wouldn't matter). The Kuno's would not be much of an issue, because Ranma and Kuno might never have met (seeing as how Kuno is also no longer a student). The whole high school social structure and interpersonal dynamics would have changed. There are other things to consider, like, what High School did Ranma attend prior to enrolling in Furinken High? If he missed the first two years of school, I doubt that he would be able to attend the last year of school. Also, Ranma and Akane, as 16 year olds, are old enough to begin chafing under their parents rules, but still young enough to need the fathers support (though Ryouga shows that it is possible for a 16 year old to be nearly fully independent). The chance is fairly good that an 18 year old (in many though not all of the industrilized nations), when confronted by their parents mandate, especially if it is one that they strongerly disagree with, might just say "I am an adult now, you can't tell me what to do". It might be harder for Genma and Soun to convince Ranma and Akane to "fall in love", if they were both 18. Another point, by age 18, Ranma should be nearly mature enough to be able to handle a relationship with a woman. At 16, he still has a lot to learn. though people mature at different rates, I would think that a Ranma and Akane relationship at 16 is more interesting (or at least wierder) than a Ranma and Akane relationship at 18. To summerize, if Ranma and Akane were both 18 at the beginning of the series, then everything would change and the story might not have been as interesting. However, I will add that I do almost wish that the series covered all of Ranma and Akane's High School years. It might have been nice to see them graduate from High School together, then get married for real. It is good that it started where it did, but it might have been even better if it went past just the "one year" (Ranma Universal Time). |
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Solomons Nightmare |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
Quote: I'll try. It's been some time since I last discussed the subject, though, so I might take a while. Thus far all I've managed to turn up have been websites about gay marriage. Perhaps Hasseman will be able to help when he gets on. He's the legal expert. Quote: Under contemporary Japanese law, though, the King's agreement with Ranma could not be considered binding. Ranma did not own the Tendo dojo, and consequently was in no position to sign it away to anyone. Moreover, having made the agreement during his infancy, he could not be legally expected to honour it. If it is law that provokes the Tendos to honour Ranma's agreement with the King, then the law that governs their society is markedly different from the law as it exists in Japan today. Quote: Yet, if there are no police, who is to uphold the law with respect to Ranma and Akane and keep them from being married? We need to ask ourselves: how is Ranma and Akane's marriage likely to be impacted by the fact that it does not enjoy legal support? What benefits will they enjoy as a legally married couple, as opposed to an illegally married one? Quote: Mikochan's made most of the points I wanted to bring up already. ^_^; Your fingertips, Moving gently to my heart, The force of Life goes on and on. The song remains, Like a haunting melody, Of angel music held in chains... - Joanne Hogg, Stars Of Tears |
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kumahachi |
Re: Ranma's Age | ||
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I always thought it was a shame that the characters didn't growed up, even just from 1 year, and that it was the main "little problem" of this serie. Even if it takes place in a imaginary world (the world of Rumiko Takahashi ^^), like it's the case for others of her series, that didn't prevent to make the characters growing up a little, like they did in Urusei Yatsura. I don't care if Ranma and Akane get married at the end or not, but it would have been more interesting to see their evolution on 2 or 3 years. I think the appearance of Hinako could have been a good moment to make them graduated the next class by example ? Anyway, the problem of this serie in my opinion is the "time". It just doesn't exist ^^ !
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SetDai |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
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You make some good points with your response, MikoChan. However, they fail to take some facts into account.
Supposing for a moment that civil law does play a part in this story (and I _will_ concede to Solomon that it may be just as irrelevant as criminal law)... Quote: I never said Akane would be 18, just Ranma. I've noticed that in manga and anime the main male character being older than his intended love interest is not at all uncommon. So having Ranma being 18 and Akane being 16 isn't something that hasn't been done before, and it really wouldn't affect the "high school social structure and interpersonal dynamics" as you put it. Plus, it fits very well into marriage laws (remember, women only have to be 16 or older to marry). Quote: This really isn't much of an issue, since only Ranma's age is changing here (and again his - and Ryouga's by default - will be the only ones). Akane will still be in her first year of high school, and if he missed the first two years as you say, so would Ranma. There's really no big necessity for Ranma to have attended high school during that time anyway, since high school is not mandatory in Japan (but still greatly favored, which is why most Japanese students still attend). So when Ranma started high school again, though being 18, he would still be in his first year. Plus, this would give him and Genma two more years for uninterrupted training, and more time for Ryouga to look for them. Quote: The chance would be pretty good, yes. Unfortunately, not in Japan. What you are talking about is called the age of majority (when a person is considered an adult), and though 18 in many industrialized nations, in Japan it happens to be 20. I mentioned earlier that this is the age when a person, male or female, can marry without parental consent, and this is why: because the person is now considered an adult by law. Ranma, being 18, would still be considered a minor under the Japanese Civil Code and therefore still under his parents' authority. He still has two years (and Akane four) before being permittd to make his own decisions about who or when to marry, so their fathers still have a relatively good amount of time to work on them. Quote: Though, it is possible that Ranma could be nearly mature enough at 18, it doesn't guarantee that he will be. Like you said, people mature at different rates. And if Genma has Ranma as focused on martial arts as the story makes it seem, he probably tried to steer Ranma clear of that kind of a relationship with women (being a distraction). As a result, at least in my opinion, an 18-year-old Ranma most likely wouldn't have any more clue how to handle a relationship than a 16-year-old Ranma would. Quote: I agree with this, but like I said above, I'm only proposing Ranma be 18, not Akane. And so far, from my viewpoint anyways, the only thing that it changes is making the story somewhat more credible. A good try, though, MikoChan. If Akane and the Japanese age of majority had been 18, too, your argument would definitely have been solid. |
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SetDai |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
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Oh, one thing I forgot...
Quote: But would honor either, Solomon? When I mentioned honor-bounded, I was actually referring to the samurai code, not the civil code. Sorry to confuse you. Anyway, what I was asking was if the Tendous thought to dismiss the Gambling King's claims when faced with two people (Ranma and Ukyou) who learned that he had cheated them, would their code of honor prevent them or not? This is the screwiness I was talking about in this situation and the lack of a cut-and-dry answer. Civil law may have some pull, it may not. The point is the situation is so messed up, and honor gets thrown around so freely here, that it's just too hard to say for certain. |
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Solomons Nightmare |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
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Mm - I still feel that an older Ranma would bring about some fairly fundamental alterations to the story. For a start, an age gap between Ranma and Akane would mean that Ranma wouldn't be placed into the same class - and consequently, that the classroom couldn't be effectively used as a stage for Ranma's various fight. The various classroom stories would also have to be lifted, or altered, and one would not expect Ranma's relationships with Nabiki and Kuno to stay the same (since he would be a year older than either, rather than a year younger). One would also expect more maturity of an 18 year old hero - and a more dominant role in a romantic relationship - and, more the point, one who would think more about the future (since 18 is the age at which Japanese usually graduate from school - Ranma's interruptions would be much less welcome to his classmates, even if his own attitude towards schooling remained unchanged).
Quote: The problem with attempting to answer your question is that it necessitates a finer grasp of the intrincacies of Genma and Soun's 'code of honour' than the manga allows. They behave appallingly on several occasions (for example, in the Battle Dougi story), yet they obviously do possess some sense of honour (as is evidenced by the lengths to which Genma goes to avoid meeting Nodoka - most people in his position would simply front up and subsequently refuse to keep their word). The fact that neither Soun nor Genma sought to dismiss the King's claim, or to challenge it, despite possessing evidence of foul play, suggests to me that they felt obliged to honour his claim irrespective of how he had come about obtaining it. I wouldn't, however, rule out there being more to it than that. Your fingertips, Moving gently to my heart, The force of Life goes on and on. The song remains, Like a haunting melody, Of angel music held in chains... - Joanne Hogg, Stars Of Tears |
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kumahachi |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
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Hum, yeah if Ranma was 18 and Akane 16, their relationship, and the relationship between Ranma and others characters like Kuno, couldn't be the same and it wouldn't be so interesting. It's better that all the main characters are the same age in this story. I'm sure a 18 years old Ranma would be more mature too.
Anyway, why do you want absolutely get Ranma and Akane married so young ? We know they will, but we clearly see that they're not ready for that yet, and in admetting that a 18 years old Ranma would be mature enough to get married (and that's only a supposition), we have seen that an 16 years old Akane isn't ! |
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Solomons Nightmare |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
Quote: I don't, but I think it likely. Phoenix Mountain has Ranma and Akane resolving the principle impediments to the advancement of their relationship; I think it not only likely, but logical that their relationship should progress rapidly past that point. This being the case, they have no real reason to delay marriage (since finance is not an issue and neither have 'careers' to speak of, or goals that demand their undivided attention), and plenty of reasons to hurry it (most obviously, it is the only obvious means whereby they can halt the attentions of their alternative suitors). I frankly can't see why they shouldn't be married young, especially since they've both essentially admitted to wanting it. Your fingertips, Moving gently to my heart, The force of Life goes on and on. The song remains, Like a haunting melody, Of angel music held in chains... - Joanne Hogg, Stars Of Tears |
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Yoiko Hibiki |
Re: marriage and society and Ranma's Age | ||
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I was going to mention the school related issues having Ranma as an 18 year old would have caused, but Solomon seems to have covered it quite well (ie being 18 would have him involved with college prepatory work, etc and the age difference between him, Kuno and Nabiki, or if all the characters were moved up appropriately Kuno and Nabiki would be taken out of high school entirely).
But I think the primary reason for the age is more or less to appeal to the Shonen Sunday readership, which are primarily marketed to high school aged kids. Takahashi's protagonists have all been roughly the same age (Kagome 15, Ranma and Akane 16, Ataru 17). Older characters like Godai and Kyoko are then relegated to an entirely different magazine/readership. |
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