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My Recent Posts · (03/21/08

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Okay, so when Viz first started publishing years and years ago it was comic form that would be collected into graphic novels. This got the hardcore fans to purchase both formats at an increased cost. As time evolved, Viz and other companies abandoned the comic format for straight graphic novels. 'Good!' I thought, 'we can all get behind a single format.'
Now I'm beginning to see these 'Mega' graphic novels that gather three books into a single volume. Often in hardcover format. As an old man this irritates me. Am I to look forward to Ranma or Maison being republished in this format? That sucks because I feel that some fans will now wait for the bigger books and not buy the normal graphic novels and once again, split the consumer spending between two formats. It also reduces fans from experimenting with new titles because they are saving up for the 'graphic novel'. Plus, I hate seeing every single nickel squeezed out of a property until that property becomes a cliche or a joke. What are your thoughts on this new format?

My Recent Posts · (03/21/08

I think you're making way to big of a deal out of this. It really dosent matter what format manga is published in as long as it has the same content. I don't think fans are going to care much about what format they are reading in as long as they are reading the cheapest available copies. I havent seen that many manga being published in the format you are describing, but if they are more expencive I don't think they are as likley to sell. Remember the main demographic is teenagers. With that being said, I actually do like the three-in-one format because that way I don't finish the whole thing in 20 minutes.
Although, I do kind of have mixed feelings about this subject because I think major companies should be more focused on getting new material out instead of reprinting material people have already read. Other than that though, I'm fine with just about any format. It's the content I care about.

My Recent Posts · (03/22/08

I think you're making way too big of a deal out of this.

We elderly tend to do that

!! Its one of the reasons why the comic industry struggled. Some fans who used to buy the individual issues made the decision to stop and wait for the collections. But the comic market is still vast and has a long history. The mangaverse is still young and developing. Could certain series survive if half of its fans decided they'd wait to buy the '3-in-1' edition as opposed to the normal tankouban?

My Recent Posts · (03/22/08

For me it's an one volume a book or all in one book mentality. I don't like idea of 3 volumes a book. It would be confuseing and weird to have three volumes per book. Otherwise very idea of a volume becomes meaningless.

My Recent Posts · (03/23/08

I agree with you Rob. I do think its just a way of getting more money out of a property thats been a good performer in the past. The good thing is, is that (at least with Viz) all of the series that are getting the VizBIG treatment have already been finished here in the US, so one can get it all in single size format without having to wait around on the new edition.

That being said, I can't help but be a bit disappointed in the new format. It looks nice, but they are delivering on their promises. The Ruroni Kenshin edition doesn't have ALL the color pages that were originally released in Japan. This just leaves the opening for yet another "more complete" version in the future, it seems.

But its no different in Japan, tankobans, widebans, shinsobans......they're still making money off UY 30 years later.

My Recent Posts · (03/23/08

Sure, in Japan, the market is so strong you can do that. In North America it is still growing. In fact, in my opinion, the manga market becomes even more important to the overall strategy of selling here because the anime side is being decimated by online piracy. Keep finding ways to introduce new series and find ways to hold the price on the books or even make them cheaper. I wonder if we'll see third party ads on the inside or back cover of the books someday. Would any of you be opposed to that if the price were dropped by a dollar or two?

My Recent Posts · (03/23/08

Sure, in Japan, the market is so strong you can do that. In North America it is still growing. In fact, in my opinion, the manga market becomes even more important to the overall strategy of selling here because the anime side is being decimated by online piracy. Keep finding ways to introduce new series and find ways to hold the price on the books or even make them cheaper. I wonder if we'll see third party ads on the inside or back cover of the books someday. Would any of you be opposed to that if the price were dropped by a dollar or two?

My Recent Posts · (03/24/08

I definitely understand what you're saying Rob. I have a bigger problem when the animation distributers release a series as single discs, with the first disc coming out with an empty box for the next consecutive volumes. I assume there will be no box set later on down the road, and usually buy the individual discs when they do this. So I get pretty annoyed when a year or even six months after I've finished purchasing a series (each disc individually, at almost $30 a disc) the same company will release a box set, at a cheaper price. (FMA I'm looking at you....) Thankfully, the newer editions don't usually seem to include any extras that the dvds I already own are missing, so I'm not seething about it. Viz is doing the same thing now with the Ranma boxsets and their 'thinpacks' selling them at a WAAAAAY cheaper price than I paid. I understand it more with something 'older' like Ranma though, to try to get it to appeal to a younger audience, and especially competing with the new anime fan mentality of 'Why should I pay for it when I can get it online for free?' so I usually end up waiting sometime after a series is fully released on dvd until buying it, just to make sure they aren't going to surprise me later with a box.

With manga though, I have to say it would definitely influence me in buying the individual volumes as they come out for $10 a pop if I know a 3-volume compilation is going to happen within the next few months that I can save money in the long run purchasing. Especially with lengthy series like Kenshin, and Inuyasha. Those are both series I have about 13 or so volumes already owned, and it would probably be smarter for me to just finish them out with the new omibooks or whatever they're called. I'm also the kind of person who does usually wait for the graphic novel (as far as American comics go) instead of trying to keep track of a bunch of thin issues. I also find it's easier for me to keep up with the story that way, but that's another topic completely. lol

I do think manga is a bit overpriced in America though. $10 may not seem so bad, but even short series like Chobits which is something like 7 books long, that's still almost $100 worth of books. I know some of Viz's titles, like Naruto, are something like $8 (not sure why they're that much cheaper, to be honest) but there are also other books that can cost almost $20 a volume! Usually Dark Horse's manga titles are bigger books, but they've got that bigger price to go with them too. I know personally, for the kind of money I put into manga I expect the quality to be the best it can. Tokyopop's books usually have a quicker turnaround date, but at the expensive of their editing. Viz has gotten a lot better lately with the problems they'd been having with Fullmetal Alchemist, but it's hard to for me to understand why the kinds of mistakes they'd been having even make it to the final print. They have 3 or 4 people checking things multiple times and none of them catch some pretty obvious mistakes? They have a couple of months between releases so it's not like they're rushing themselves with it. The fact that I pay about $4 for manga here in Japan just makes me wonder why the same exact book costs twice as much in America. I mean, I get that crossing the ocean there are translators and editing the text to pay for, but it seems like maybe the manga industry is going to have to change some things (like Viz did with the Death Note episode downloads online) to justify the cost to fans who might otherwise get this sort of stuff for free online. I feel like that's going to be a bigger problem for the industry that re-re-rereleasing series in different formats.

I think I got slightly off track there. lol

My Recent Posts · (03/24/08

Well, after my experience as part of ILM, I can see where they're coming from with higher prices (that are STILL lower than most equivalent US comic collections). First you have the licensing fee to the original publisher/artist/whathaveyou. Then you have to pay the translator, then someone to put it into readable English (especially if its a comedy) you have to pay someone to wipe out most/all of the kanji, etc., then you have to pay someone to replace said kanji with English, then pay someone to proofread.

Its easier when the sound effects get left (iirc, most of Excel Saga is like that), and I did that myself on one VERY sfx intensive story right as I was getting into finishing my thesis, but the couple I did fully change took forever to get correct, as you have to fix the art as you go.

Personally, I've only seen these big packs with HUGE series (Fruits Basket comes to mind), but I'm still buying the small ones - easier to carry and read. $8-$12 a pop is reasonable to me. As to dvds, there are series I will get as they come out (ah my goddess comes to mind) and there are ones I'll wait for a boxset or thinpak for, depends on how big a fan I am and what money I have free. I have a couple of larger Ranma boxsets, but I've been filling in with the thinpaks since I hadn't had the money for the bigger sets before.

My Recent Posts · (03/27/08

Its true Hylentor. I've only noticed such collected volumes for big series such as Fruits Baskets or Negima! I don't want to see them milk existing manga-fans for the same series. I believe that it is of more importance to continue to encourage existing fans to try new series. I would agree with such volumes as long as they target new readers to a series. What I mean by that is to use the omni-volumes as permanent replacements for the single books. Basically, Fruits Baskets vol. 1 - 3 would go out of print and be replaced by the omni. To me, that makes sense.

To address the NorthAmerican price issue, I would start by stating how happy I am that the Canadian dollar is doing well and I can purchase manga for the US cover price. Books that are 10US are usually $12.50 to $14 per book Cdn. When it comes to the Japanese price, I would assume they sell in vast quantities so they could be priced lower. As well, there may be third party advertising in the books to further reduce the cost.

As well, they might be able to cut foreign production costs by perhaps having people live in Japan who can do the translations almost immediately. Would you be up for that Hoshi? They might be able to employ new techniques for the artists. For example, when it comes to text and sfx, maybe the artist could draw the image on paper but when they want to do sfx and text they could do it on a transparency overtop the artwork. When it comes time to translate, the text and sfx are removed easily, saving tonnes of work.

This kind of production could lead to foreign releases being closer to Japanese releases. It could be put on the internet and special Shonen access accounts could be created and we'd get our fixes a lot faster and eliminate fanscans. Just a thought.

My Recent Posts · (04/03/08

hmm... I don't really see where having someone living in Japan doing the translation cutting down costs THAT much, but who knows?....

My Recent Posts · (04/03/08

Costs saved in terms of time. I feel that a small team based in Tokyo could react to the market. If a piece of text is tricky to translate, they can consult almost immediately. I'm also not sure if the Viz translations for the US and Canada are used for the UK, Australia, or NewZealand. Is there a separate company holding those publishing rights who do their own translating? To reduce the costs of the books abroad, I wonder if a Tokyo based translating team, could have their costs rolled into the Japanese side of the business which then reduces the overhead for the American or foreign office.

My Recent Posts · (04/05/08

Unfortunately, those costs would just be pushed down the line, although it *might* save some.

The problem is, for its size and the market, ~$10 is VERY good. Consider OMG and Ranma while they were still monthly issues. They were priced at the amount of a normal US comic book (I think the last ones were $2.99), at 5-6 issues per volume (the one I grabbed at random had 11 stories in it, so 5.5 issues), that would be $15-$18 worth for $10. If the costs were shaved a bit, that would make it what? Maaaayyyybe $9 per volume? I just don't see them passing on the small savings to the consumer if there ended up being one. Maybe some of those publishers whose manga ends up at $11 (Del Rey) would push it down a tad?

Maybe I just have a different perspective on it from having both collected US comics and worked at a comic store.

ed: typo

My Recent Posts · (04/16/08

When I first started purchasing VIZ manga it was back in the early 90s and all I remember is that the paperback graphic novels were POORLY made and the glue barely held the pages together and the bigger 1st volumes like Lum/Perfect coll. and the 1st vol of Ranma 1/2 always had huge sections that would fall out and smack me in the face. This is probably irrelevant but the above doesn't bother me as much as this new reading experience they're doing w/ a lot of manga co.'s is the 'flipping' the pages to read like you're reading backwards like authentic japanese manga, except in english. It's a nice idea, but I sort of think they are just too lazy to re-flip for the english format. I can read/write/speak japanese, but since I'm not in japan, I'd honestly rather read my english left to write.

My Recent Posts · (04/17/08

Eh, flipping's a tricky issue in a number of regards. I can recall when I was working for Ironcat watching all the work going into cleaning up the sound effects and such so that you could place new ones over top of them; it's quite labor intensive as Hylentor pointed out. Further, flipping can throw some things way off in several ways (the translation may need to be altered to flip left and right (and if a joke involves it, there's extra complication there), cars appear on the wrong side of the road, everyone is left-handed (once again, something that could have story implications), etc.). As for the raw cost, I do like the fact that it's gone down over the years, but the paper quality has gone down to match, sadly. Then again, I generally just pick up Japanese editions for $6-8 at Kinokuniya, so I can't complain too loudly, I guess...

My Recent Posts · (04/17/08

I think I should make clear my true point about translating overseas. As I observe the industry, it is clear that the access of the internet by Western fans has made it very difficult for the Japanese companies to keep up. Cumbersome licensing agreements and production techniques push back release dates in North America by months or even years.

The trouble here is that a fan can go online and read a fan-translated series before it even makes its debut on the bookstore shelves. These fans might be willing to buy this series but they lose interest after a year and are already on to something else. This is where the industry loses money. To plug that hole, I suggest ramping up production such that before the Japanese language version is published in Shonen Sunday or whatever, that the chapter is translated and produced for english (and other languages). That by the time they have enough chapters to produce a tankouban, the english version is simultaneously compiled and printed and distributed. In fact, release it before its Japanese counterpart.

I know this is no guarantee that the fan will buy it, but I feel there is certainly a much better chance they will. I also say its time to start licensing these series faster. Its time to do what most companies who sell multiple products do, push new series(products) in return for the popular series(product) "Oh, you'd like to license Bleach? Sure, for a three year run. Oh, you'd like it longer than that? Well, maybe we could work something out if you publish series X, Y and Z!! The same thing is done for movie theatres too. Want Spiderman 3? Sure. But ya gotta show stinker movie X, Y, Z for two week runs each.

To me, this system will promote building the industry in North America. You want new series and choices always coming out. You want to break through that barrier which defines manga as a fringe and start becoming really mainstream. Then maybe they can sell the volumes for 5 to 8 dollars and push all the specialty crap for popular series.

My Recent Posts · (04/18/08

Rob Heinbecker wrote:
I also say its time to start licensing these series faster. Its time to do what most companies who sell multiple products do, push new series(products) in return for the popular series(product) "Oh, you'd like to license Bleach? Sure, for a three year run. Oh, you'd like it longer than that? Well, maybe we could work something out if you publish series X, Y and Z!! The same thing is done for movie theatres too. Want Spiderman 3? Sure. But ya gotta show stinker movie X, Y, Z for two week runs each.

That already happens for both anime and manga. The distributor has to account for the expected loss or lack of profit on the stinkers before deciding if they really want the "good" series. That causes some to pass on shows that they might otherwise license. It also causes some releases to reach odd status to help recoup costs or marginally offset losses. Any time you see a 26 episode anime series on 7-8 discs instead of 6, a high license cost (either direct ir indirect) is the reason. It's also usually a factor when there's a lengthy delay between volumes of anime or manga, or editing seems a bit haphazard. Tokyopop cut costs all the time in the area of editing to save money, especially on "throwaway" series.

My Recent Posts · (04/18/08

Even though technically people out there in general can go online for anything and work the system to get around having to pay anything for manga/movies/etc., (probably the same kids I see in bookstores sitting on the floor of the manga section for an hr. and just put the book away) I entirely agree with producing the english manga faster as well as simultaneously when the japanese versions are released b/c when I was younger only a handful of my friends that bought the original manga books from japanese stores were able to obtain translations either online or from friends that spoke japanese, it was extremely limited, and back then about 10-12 yrs ago, fans were completely in the blue about when a title was going to come out in english. And even now, like you mentioned, they will *not* wait for titles to come out in english but will go online and by then, they will less likely spend money on something they read for free and already knows what happens in the story.

My Recent Posts · (05/03/08

Off the record / not speaking as an employee : Contrary to popular belief, the flipping issue is not due to laziness.

It's to be a more authentic reading experience for manga fans in the US. Also... some artists really don't like to have their work flipped. A lot of work has going into the VizBig titles and the paper/print quality is really nice!

I have no idea why some pages are colorized and some aren't... :/ It may be a cost issue to make sure that they stay affordable. Printing in color and on good paper can be expensive and that price trickles down to the consumer.

My Recent Posts · (05/04/08

But Viz does have access to all the color imagery, Frenchie? I thought they might not be reprinting some of them due to inability of getting them, or the editor (or whomever) not knowing they were meant to be in color in the first place.

My Recent Posts · (05/04/08

Off the record / not speaking as an employee : I've not been here long enough to say for sure, but I'd think they would have access to most of the color images. Who knows. I'm speaking TOTALLY speculatively on that one! ^^; It's also pretty easy for anyone to tell if something was intended for color or not so its most likely an intentional decision.

Author	Comment
Rob Heinbecker	The 'New' graphic novel	Lead	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1413 (03/21/08 02:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Okay, so when Viz first started publishing years and years ago it was comic form that would be collected into graphic novels. This got the hardcore fans to purchase both formats at an increased cost. As time evolved, Viz and other companies abandoned the comic format for straight graphic novels. 'Good!' I thought, 'we can all get behind a single format.' Now I'm beginning to see these 'Mega' graphic novels that gather three books into a single volume. Often in hardcover format. As an old man this irritates me. Am I to look forward to Ranma or Maison being republished in this format? That sucks because I feel that some fans will now wait for the bigger books and not buy the normal graphic novels and once again, split the consumer spending between two formats. It also reduces fans from experimenting with new titles because they are saving up for the 'graphic novel'. Plus, I hate seeing every single nickel squeezed out of a property until that property becomes a cliche or a joke. What are your thoughts on this new format? "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
lum no fanboy		#1	[-]
Fluffy White Dog Posts: 852 (03/21/08 11:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think you're making way to big of a deal out of this. It really dosent matter what format manga is published in as long as it has the same content. I don't think fans are going to care much about what format they are reading in as long as they are reading the cheapest available copies. I havent seen that many manga being published in the format you are describing, but if they are more expencive I don't think they are as likley to sell. Remember the main demographic is teenagers. With that being said, I actually do like the three-in-one format because that way I don't finish the whole thing in 20 minutes. Although, I do kind of have mixed feelings about this subject because I think major companies should be more focused on getting new material out instead of reprinting material people have already read. Other than that though, I'm fine with just about any format. It's the content I care about.
Rob Heinbecker		#2	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1415 (03/22/08 06:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think you're making way too big of a deal out of this. We elderly tend to do that !! Its one of the reasons why the comic industry struggled. Some fans who used to buy the individual issues made the decision to stop and wait for the collections. But the comic market is still vast and has a long history. The mangaverse is still young and developing. Could certain series survive if half of its fans decided they'd wait to buy the '3-in-1' edition as opposed to the normal tankouban? "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
tsubasafan		#3	[-]
Kuno Family Servant Posts: 62 (03/22/08 09:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	For me it's an one volume a book or all in one book mentality. I don't like idea of 3 volumes a book. It would be confuseing and weird to have three volumes per book. Otherwise very idea of a volume becomes meaningless.
Yusaku Godai		#4	[-]
Posts: 3256 (03/23/08 12:45 AM) Long Suffering Ronin Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree with you Rob. I do think its just a way of getting more money out of a property thats been a good performer in the past. The good thing is, is that (at least with Viz) all of the series that are getting the VizBIG treatment have already been finished here in the US, so one can get it all in single size format without having to wait around on the new edition. That being said, I can't help but be a bit disappointed in the new format. It looks nice, but they are delivering on their promises. The Ruroni Kenshin edition doesn't have ALL the color pages that were originally released in Japan. This just leaves the opening for yet another "more complete" version in the future, it seems. But its no different in Japan, tankobans, widebans, shinsobans......they're still making money off UY 30 years later. Webmaster Rumic World
Rob Heinbecker	UY 30 years later	#5	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1416 (03/23/08 10:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sure, in Japan, the market is so strong you can do that. In North America it is still growing. In fact, in my opinion, the manga market becomes even more important to the overall strategy of selling here because the anime side is being decimated by online piracy. Keep finding ways to introduce new series and find ways to hold the price on the books or even make them cheaper. I wonder if we'll see third party ads on the inside or back cover of the books someday. Would any of you be opposed to that if the price were dropped by a dollar or two? "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
Rob Heinbecker	UY 30 years later	#6	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1416 (03/23/08 10:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sure, in Japan, the market is so strong you can do that. In North America it is still growing. In fact, in my opinion, the manga market becomes even more important to the overall strategy of selling here because the anime side is being decimated by online piracy. Keep finding ways to introduce new series and find ways to hold the price on the books or even make them cheaper. I wonder if we'll see third party ads on the inside or back cover of the books someday. Would any of you be opposed to that if the price were dropped by a dollar or two? "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
Hoshi Shouri		#7	[-]
Kendo Club Member Posts: 1625 (03/24/08 12:01 AM) 2004&2005 Rumic Quiz Champ Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I definitely understand what you're saying Rob. I have a bigger problem when the animation distributers release a series as single discs, with the first disc coming out with an empty box for the next consecutive volumes. I assume there will be no box set later on down the road, and usually buy the individual discs when they do this. So I get pretty annoyed when a year or even six months after I've finished purchasing a series (each disc individually, at almost $30 a disc) the same company will release a box set, at a cheaper price. (FMA I'm looking at you....) Thankfully, the newer editions don't usually seem to include any extras that the dvds I already own are missing, so I'm not seething about it. Viz is doing the same thing now with the Ranma boxsets and their 'thinpacks' selling them at a WAAAAAY cheaper price than I paid. I understand it more with something 'older' like Ranma though, to try to get it to appeal to a younger audience, and especially competing with the new anime fan mentality of 'Why should I pay for it when I can get it online for free?' so I usually end up waiting sometime after a series is fully released on dvd until buying it, just to make sure they aren't going to surprise me later with a box. With manga though, I have to say it would definitely influence me in buying the individual volumes as they come out for $10 a pop if I know a 3-volume compilation is going to happen within the next few months that I can save money in the long run purchasing. Especially with lengthy series like Kenshin, and Inuyasha. Those are both series I have about 13 or so volumes already owned, and it would probably be smarter for me to just finish them out with the new omibooks or whatever they're called. I'm also the kind of person who does usually wait for the graphic novel (as far as American comics go) instead of trying to keep track of a bunch of thin issues. I also find it's easier for me to keep up with the story that way, but that's another topic completely. lol I do think manga is a bit overpriced in America though. $10 may not seem so bad, but even short series like Chobits which is something like 7 books long, that's still almost $100 worth of books. I know some of Viz's titles, like Naruto, are something like $8 (not sure why they're that much cheaper, to be honest) but there are also other books that can cost almost $20 a volume! Usually Dark Horse's manga titles are bigger books, but they've got that bigger price to go with them too. I know personally, for the kind of money I put into manga I expect the quality to be the best it can. Tokyopop's books usually have a quicker turnaround date, but at the expensive of their editing. Viz has gotten a lot better lately with the problems they'd been having with Fullmetal Alchemist, but it's hard to for me to understand why the kinds of mistakes they'd been having even make it to the final print. They have 3 or 4 people checking things multiple times and none of them catch some pretty obvious mistakes? They have a couple of months between releases so it's not like they're rushing themselves with it. The fact that I pay about $4 for manga here in Japan just makes me wonder why the same exact book costs twice as much in America. I mean, I get that crossing the ocean there are translators and editing the text to pay for, but it seems like maybe the manga industry is going to have to change some things (like Viz did with the Death Note episode downloads online) to justify the cost to fans who might otherwise get this sort of stuff for free online. I feel like that's going to be a bigger problem for the industry that re-re-rereleasing series in different formats. I think I got slightly off track there. lol "Ichigo Ichie" Each moment, only once
hylentor		#8	[-]
Resident of Mount Phoenix Posts: 3805 (03/24/08 12:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, after my experience as part of ILM, I can see where they're coming from with higher prices (that are STILL lower than most equivalent US comic collections). First you have the licensing fee to the original publisher/artist/whathaveyou. Then you have to pay the translator, then someone to put it into readable English (especially if its a comedy) you have to pay someone to wipe out most/all of the kanji, etc., then you have to pay someone to replace said kanji with English, then pay someone to proofread. Its easier when the sound effects get left (iirc, most of Excel Saga is like that), and I did that myself on one VERY sfx intensive story right as I was getting into finishing my thesis, but the couple I did fully change took forever to get correct, as you have to fix the art as you go. Personally, I've only seen these big packs with HUGE series (Fruits Basket comes to mind), but I'm still buying the small ones - easier to carry and read. $8-$12 a pop is reasonable to me. As to dvds, there are series I will get as they come out (ah my goddess comes to mind) and there are ones I'll wait for a boxset or thinpak for, depends on how big a fan I am and what money I have free. I have a couple of larger Ranma boxsets, but I've been filling in with the thinpaks since I hadn't had the money for the bigger sets before. ---The Hylentor This post has been deemed clearance ULTRAVIOLET. Knowledge or possession of this post by any citizen of Security Clearance Violet or lower means he is so, so deeply screwed it's not funny.
Rob Heinbecker	Omni volumes	#9	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1418 (03/27/08 08:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Its true Hylentor. I've only noticed such collected volumes for big series such as Fruits Baskets or Negima! I don't want to see them milk existing manga-fans for the same series. I believe that it is of more importance to continue to encourage existing fans to try new series. I would agree with such volumes as long as they target new readers to a series. What I mean by that is to use the omni-volumes as permanent replacements for the single books. Basically, Fruits Baskets vol. 1 - 3 would go out of print and be replaced by the omni. To me, that makes sense. To address the NorthAmerican price issue, I would start by stating how happy I am that the Canadian dollar is doing well and I can purchase manga for the US cover price. Books that are 10US are usually $12.50 to $14 per book Cdn. When it comes to the Japanese price, I would assume they sell in vast quantities so they could be priced lower. As well, there may be third party advertising in the books to further reduce the cost. As well, they might be able to cut foreign production costs by perhaps having people live in Japan who can do the translations almost immediately. Would you be up for that Hoshi? They might be able to employ new techniques for the artists. For example, when it comes to text and sfx, maybe the artist could draw the image on paper but when they want to do sfx and text they could do it on a transparency overtop the artwork. When it comes time to translate, the text and sfx are removed easily, saving tonnes of work. This kind of production could lead to foreign releases being closer to Japanese releases. It could be put on the internet and special Shonen access accounts could be created and we'd get our fixes a lot faster and eliminate fanscans. Just a thought. "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
hylentor		#10	[-]
Resident of Mount Phoenix Posts: 3806 (04/03/08 06:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	hmm... I don't really see where having someone living in Japan doing the translation cutting down costs THAT much, but who knows?.... ---The Hylentor This post has been deemed clearance ULTRAVIOLET. Knowledge or possession of this post by any citizen of Security Clearance Violet or lower means he is so, so deeply screwed it's not funny.
Rob Heinbecker	costs	#11	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1420 (04/03/08 10:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Costs saved in terms of time. I feel that a small team based in Tokyo could react to the market. If a piece of text is tricky to translate, they can consult almost immediately. I'm also not sure if the Viz translations for the US and Canada are used for the UK, Australia, or NewZealand. Is there a separate company holding those publishing rights who do their own translating? To reduce the costs of the books abroad, I wonder if a Tokyo based translating team, could have their costs rolled into the Japanese side of the business which then reduces the overhead for the American or foreign office. "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
hylentor		#12	[-]
Resident of Mount Phoenix Posts: 3810 (04/05/08 06:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Unfortunately, those costs would just be pushed down the line, although it might save some. The problem is, for its size and the market, ~$10 is VERY good. Consider OMG and Ranma while they were still monthly issues. They were priced at the amount of a normal US comic book (I think the last ones were $2.99), at 5-6 issues per volume (the one I grabbed at random had 11 stories in it, so 5.5 issues), that would be $15-$18 worth for $10. If the costs were shaved a bit, that would make it what? Maaaayyyybe $9 per volume? I just don't see them passing on the small savings to the consumer if there ended up being one. Maybe some of those publishers whose manga ends up at $11 (Del Rey) would push it down a tad? Maybe I just have a different perspective on it from having both collected US comics and worked at a comic store. ed: typo ---The Hylentor This post has been deemed clearance ULTRAVIOLET. Knowledge or possession of this post by any citizen of Security Clearance Violet or lower means he is so, so deeply screwed it's not funny.
Diko Linnai	lol I shouldn't be posting at work but it's slow...	#13	[-]
Obnoxious Alien Posts: 155 (04/16/08 05:40 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When I first started purchasing VIZ manga it was back in the early 90s and all I remember is that the paperback graphic novels were POORLY made and the glue barely held the pages together and the bigger 1st volumes like Lum/Perfect coll. and the 1st vol of Ranma 1/2 always had huge sections that would fall out and smack me in the face. This is probably irrelevant but the above doesn't bother me as much as this new reading experience they're doing w/ a lot of manga co.'s is the 'flipping' the pages to read like you're reading backwards like authentic japanese manga, except in english. It's a nice idea, but I sort of think they are just too lazy to re-flip for the english format. I can read/write/speak japanese, but since I'm not in japan, I'd honestly rather read my english left to write. "Miss Shinobu won't you have some tea with me?"
Ranko sama		#14	[-]
Crossdressing High School Student Posts: 922 (04/17/08 02:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Eh, flipping's a tricky issue in a number of regards. I can recall when I was working for Ironcat watching all the work going into cleaning up the sound effects and such so that you could place new ones over top of them; it's quite labor intensive as Hylentor pointed out. Further, flipping can throw some things way off in several ways (the translation may need to be altered to flip left and right (and if a joke involves it, there's extra complication there), cars appear on the wrong side of the road, everyone is left-handed (once again, something that could have story implications), etc.). As for the raw cost, I do like the fact that it's gone down over the years, but the paper quality has gone down to match, sadly. Then again, I generally just pick up Japanese editions for $6-8 at Kinokuniya, so I can't complain too loudly, I guess...
Rob Heinbecker	Theories	#15	[-]
Dojo Destroyer Posts: 1421 (04/17/08 10:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I should make clear my true point about translating overseas. As I observe the industry, it is clear that the access of the internet by Western fans has made it very difficult for the Japanese companies to keep up. Cumbersome licensing agreements and production techniques push back release dates in North America by months or even years. The trouble here is that a fan can go online and read a fan-translated series before it even makes its debut on the bookstore shelves. These fans might be willing to buy this series but they lose interest after a year and are already on to something else. This is where the industry loses money. To plug that hole, I suggest ramping up production such that before the Japanese language version is published in Shonen Sunday or whatever, that the chapter is translated and produced for english (and other languages). That by the time they have enough chapters to produce a tankouban, the english version is simultaneously compiled and printed and distributed. In fact, release it before its Japanese counterpart. I know this is no guarantee that the fan will buy it, but I feel there is certainly a much better chance they will. I also say its time to start licensing these series faster. Its time to do what most companies who sell multiple products do, push new series(products) in return for the popular series(product) "Oh, you'd like to license Bleach? Sure, for a three year run. Oh, you'd like it longer than that? Well, maybe we could work something out if you publish series X, Y and Z!! The same thing is done for movie theatres too. Want Spiderman 3? Sure. But ya gotta show stinker movie X, Y, Z for two week runs each. To me, this system will promote building the industry in North America. You want new series and choices always coming out. You want to break through that barrier which defines manga as a fringe and start becoming really mainstream. Then maybe they can sell the volumes for 5 to 8 dollars and push all the specialty crap for popular series. "The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
Alindawyl		#16	[-]
Bakeneko's Fiancee Posts: 1782 (04/18/08 08:07 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Rob Heinbecker wrote: I also say its time to start licensing these series faster. Its time to do what most companies who sell multiple products do, push new series(products) in return for the popular series(product) "Oh, you'd like to license Bleach? Sure, for a three year run. Oh, you'd like it longer than that? Well, maybe we could work something out if you publish series X, Y and Z!! The same thing is done for movie theatres too. Want Spiderman 3? Sure. But ya gotta show stinker movie X, Y, Z for two week runs each. That already happens for both anime and manga. The distributor has to account for the expected loss or lack of profit on the stinkers before deciding if they really want the "good" series. That causes some to pass on shows that they might otherwise license. It also causes some releases to reach odd status to help recoup costs or marginally offset losses. Any time you see a 26 episode anime series on 7-8 discs instead of 6, a high license cost (either direct ir indirect) is the reason. It's also usually a factor when there's a lengthy delay between volumes of anime or manga, or editing seems a bit haphazard. Tokyopop cut costs all the time in the area of editing to save money, especially on "throwaway" series.
Diko Linnai		#17	[-]
Obnoxious Alien Posts: 168 (04/18/08 12:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Even though technically people out there in general can go online for anything and work the system to get around having to pay anything for manga/movies/etc., (probably the same kids I see in bookstores sitting on the floor of the manga section for an hr. and just put the book away) I entirely agree with producing the english manga faster as well as simultaneously when the japanese versions are released b/c when I was younger only a handful of my friends that bought the original manga books from japanese stores were able to obtain translations either online or from friends that spoke japanese, it was extremely limited, and back then about 10-12 yrs ago, fans were completely in the blue about when a title was going to come out in english. And even now, like you mentioned, they will not wait for titles to come out in english but will go online and by then, they will less likely spend money on something they read for free and already knows what happens in the story. "Miss Shinobu won't you have some tea with me?"
frenchhie		#18	[-]
Mr. Ichinose's Confidant Posts: 2640 (05/03/08 11:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Off the record / not speaking as an employee : Contrary to popular belief, the flipping issue is not due to laziness. It's to be a more authentic reading experience for manga fans in the US. Also... some artists really don't like to have their work flipped. A lot of work has going into the VizBig titles and the paper/print quality is really nice! I have no idea why some pages are colorized and some aren't... :/ It may be a cost issue to make sure that they stay affordable. Printing in color and on good paper can be expensive and that price trickles down to the consumer. Design is <3
Yoiko Hibiki		#19	[-]
Posts: 5056 (05/04/08 01:37 PM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But Viz does have access to all the color imagery, Frenchie? I thought they might not be reprinting some of them due to inability of getting them, or the editor (or whomever) not knowing they were meant to be in color in the first place. Yoiko Hibiki Webmaster - Rumic World
frenchhie		#20	[-]
Sesshomaru's Toadie Posts: 3 (05/04/08 07:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Off the record / not speaking as an employee : I've not been here long enough to say for sure, but I'd think they would have access to most of the color images. Who knows. I'm speaking TOTALLY speculatively on that one! ^^; It's also pretty easy for anyone to tell if something was intended for color or not so its most likely an intentional decision. Last Edited By: frenchhie 05/04/08 08:04 PM. Edited 1 times.

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