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Diko Linnai |
Did Mitaka choose Asuna by default, love at first sight, cornered? |
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We all know just how much Kyoko meant to Coach Mitaka throughout the series, and what his intentions were for her. So towards the end of the series when we get
to see Asuna for the first time, do you think Mitaka was just waiting around for Kyoko to finally admit she wanted Godai more, just to hear closure, or did he
eventually grow to really love Asuna? They didn't know each other, were sort of thrown together by their parents (well I guess it sorta worked for Ranma
and Akane) and that maybe in due time their love grew slowly, but I was wondering how everyone else thought Mitaka had had to deal with this transition in the
story.
"Miss Shinobu won't you have some tea with me?"
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childisfatheroftheman |
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He was trying to use the omiai to force Kyoko to act definetively on his marriage proprosal at first. I think when he accepted that Kyoko would choose Godai, he didn't really care a whole lot who he married. Asuna was nice, friendly, and sympathetic to him, and she cared for him, which was enough for him at that point. I don't think either loves each other at the end of the story, I think they agreed to let their relationship grow naturally. |
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Diko Linnai |
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Ha...thank goodness at least Asuna was a kind person, willing to cancel the proposal gifts to make him happy. You've got a point about neither really
loving each other; even in the movie and towards the end of the series you don't see too much body language between them that insinuates that they are
falling in love, even when Asuna was pregnant Mitaka was like, "hey look here what I did" lol
"Miss Shinobu won't you have some tea with me?"
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GodaiMH |
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I think what both of you say is plausible. I'm of the opinion that when Mitaka laughed at himself, he really was offering a clean slate to Asuna, and
offering a clean slate to himself. I think he firmly expected that he would fall in love with her. And by the time that they are wed, I would reckon there is
true love at least building between them. That Mitaka should offer such a clean slate, and Asuna, knowing that Mitaka was originally in love with Kyoko,
should let him, really is a testament to both of their characters. Honestly, I think Asuna truly DID love Mitaka, and that is why she offers him to be free
from their engagement. But her cracking her joke in the odd moment really could let Mitaka look at himself not so seriously, step back, take a breath, and
say, "What do I have to lose." I think Mitaka realized Asuna did love him when she offered him freedom, and that gave him the chance to make a
decision, not selfishly or for honour's sake, but for the opportunity that love could bud and win his heart.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!) |
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lumsdarling |
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I think to really understand Mitaka, a whole other series would have to be written. I'm not sure what his deal is, but one thing that always intrigues me
about Mitaka is the way, from start to finish, his pursuit of Kyoko is framed as a competition. His interest in Kyoko is galvanized when Godai makes his
declaration of love, and he throws his hat into the ring. Then, in the end, we get that image of him holding the loser's trophy. Mitaka has that soft,
hurting side to him, that Asuna sees several times, but Kyoko never really deals with. Perhaps the fact that Asuna is able to bring out Mitaka's inner
self, and not just the sparkling facade we see for most of the series, is an indication that she's a better match for him than the prize he's created
in his head. The fear that Mitaka has, of not being the ideal a lot of people make him out to be, seems to have been eased by Asuna.
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Diko Linnai |
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Well said, lumsdarling, Mitaka truly has more depth than RT's other rich charmers like Kuno or Mendo. And Asuna did not drag her feet about her feelings
towards him.
"Miss Shinobu won't you have some tea with me?"
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Dr Casey |
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The relationship between Mitaka and Asuna leaves me feeling slightly unsettled. I'm sure Mitaka grew to love the girl eventually, but there's nothing
to indicate that Asuna was a better match for him than Kyoko. I feel very little chemistry on Mitaka's end towards Asuna outside of the scene where Asuna
cracked the joke (Granted, they didn't really get to know each other until after they were ejected from the storyline, but still). It's not like the
deal with Ryoga, who found the girl who was absolutely perfect for him. It would have been easy to move on from his former love because Akari was a girl who
could, given the aid of time, make Akane look like dirt in comparison. Mitaka's ending, though, might truly have been an unhappy one. That's what makes
Kyoko's rejection sting worse than it already does, and it was a painful scene to begin with.
That reminds me... whenever Godai learned that Mitaka had lost the war, that he would indeed marry Asuna and never Kyoko, he didn't seem all that sympathetic (Or at least not sympathetic towards his loss of Kyoko - he was concerned about the Asuna situation and Mitaka's general depression). Whenever Kozue dropped out of the running, Mrs. Ichinose said something to Kyoko at her parents' house along the lines of "What's wrong? Things are working out the way you wanted them to." Things are working out the way she wanted them to... so it's all about Kyoko, huh? No consideration for Kozue's feelings? I wonder, is it considered normal or okay to be that unconcerned about the situation or feelings of your romantic rival? Because I'm in something of a love triangle myself, and I know that I'm not that callous towards the third party. Hell, I've even spent a lot of time endorsing and promoting the alternate pairing because I don't want the other guy to get hurt (And no, it's not because the feelings are weak on my end). It doesn't make a difference either way since it's not like that's going to change, but somehow it's nice to know that I'd be okay even if I did lower my standards. |
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GodaiMH |
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Dr. Casey wrote:
It's not like the deal with Ryoga, who found the girl who was absolutely perfect for him. It would have been easy to move on from his former love because Akari was a girl who could, given the aid of time, make Akane look like dirt in comparison. Mitaka's ending, though, might truly have been an unhappy one. That's what makes Kyoko's rejection sting worse than it already does, and it was a painful scene to begin with.So you don't think that the pairing of two persons of means and status was a happy ending? I know that Mitaka is struck in love with Kyoko, similarly, I may add, to Godai. In other words, he's really more struck in lust at first. His pursuit of Kyoko is almost on an equal footing to Godai. I have to agree with Lumsdarling above that Mitaka's pursuit of Kyoko is framed and galvanized by his competitive spirit. That isn't to say that Mitaka didn't come to care about Kyoko. He did. But honestly, I have to agree that Kyoko never saw the true Mitaka, like Asuna did. (And it is probably true that Mitaka never saw the true Kyoko.) It was only after the "competition" was lost that Asuna got to see just what made Mitaka truly Mitaka. That he was a truly honourable man, and made of the best and not the worst, longsuffering and lonely in his hurt but determined to hold up his promise; that must have truly endeared Mitaka to Asuna. So Asuna could offer Mitaka his freedom, even at the late moment. That's when Mitaka could turn and see Asuna for who she is, without any more dwelling on having lost a competition, and value the consolation prize even more than the first. Similarly to Ryoga's Akari, I think, Mitaka has in Asuna a person who will understand him far better than Kyoko ever could. Asuna and Mitaka grew up in similar worlds and should understand each other quite well, that is after each has put their former grief behind them. Both of them would be in a hurting mode at the point when Asuna made her joke. But Asuna's joke allowed those hurts (realizing she's a second prize on Asuna's part, and drawing second prize on Mitaka's part) to be put in perspective and the two respective parties to balm together. That we don't see them any more in the story until the reception means, I think, that we are to believe they're getting along fine, perhaps even better than fine. They sure do have a good sex life, at least. Dr. Casey continues: ... whenever Godai learned that Mitaka had lost the war, that he would indeed marry Asuna and never Kyoko, he didn't seem all that sympathetic (Or at least not sympathetic towards his loss of Kyoko - he was concerned about the Asuna situation and Mitaka's general depression). Whenever Kozue dropped out of the running, Mrs. Ichinose said something to Kyoko at her parents' house along the lines of "What's wrong? Things are working out the way you wanted them to." Things are working out the way she wanted them to... so it's all about Kyoko, huh? No consideration for Kozue's feelings? I wonder, is it considered normal or okay to be that unconcerned about the situation or feelings of your romantic rival?You bring up an interesting point. I get from Godai's worrying about Asuna that he wants Mitaka to do the right thing. I do not in the least fault Godai for this. It is an observation I have about men and that is that they are always concerned about the female. It isn't that Godai doesn't feel for Mitaka in that situation. It is that Godai is concerned for Asuna. And we also get Mitaka being equally concerned, not for Godai, but for Kyoko. That is why he goes to talk to Godai and give him a pep talk to do the best he can for Kyoko. It certainly isn't that Mitaka has any concern for Godai's feelings. I'm sure that between Godai and Mitaka, their former rival status makes it easier for them to be curt with each other. But I have noted that even closest male buddies will urge each other to do the right thing where a woman is concerned. Men respect each other and the ultimate way one can show one's respect to another man is to kick him in the pants and tell him to do what is right (or in Mitaka's case, to kick Godai in the pants and tell him to get his act together). When it comes to Mrs. Ichinose to Kyoko concerning Kozue, its all about personal loyalty. Mrs. Ichinose is being a good friend to Kyoko in telling her that its all right on her side. Mrs. Ichinose, after all, is Kyoko's friend, not Kozue's. And she's taking Kyoko's part, as a good female friend does. With women (and this I have on good authority, straight from my wife!), friendship is about loyalty and being there for the person, and helping them by making their friend feel better. That's what Mrs. Ichinose is doing for Kyoko. That another person is also hurting would only make Kyoko feel worse, so Mrs. Ichinose doesn't bring that up. I don't think that there is a general callousness in Maison Ikkoku against the third party in the triangle. I think, instead, it is just guys being guys and women being women. There ARE differences in temperment and character between men and women. And we see in these examples the best of each. With Godai, he's speaking directly to his rival, but it's a man to man talk. Each man is bucking each other up. They may not like each other, but they are being chivilrous and each caring about the other's woman. I think, with Mitaka and Godai, each is charitable to a certain extent to their former rival. Godai certainly comes to respect what it took for Mitaka to come and try to buck him up. Mitaka, just in the act of going to meet with Godai, shows his character. Kyoko, on the other hand, never directly confronts her rival. It may have been a mess if she had. There, with Mrs. Ichinose, it was a meeting of friends. Kozue, too, was meeting with her friends who were giving her comfort as well. Because I'm in something of a love triangle myself, and I know that I'm not that callous towards the third party. Hell, I've even spent a lot of time endorsing and promoting the alternate pairing because I don't want the other guy to get hurt (And no, it's not because the feelings are weak on my end).Once again I must note an example of how different people can get different things out of this work depending on where they are and where they've been in their life. With all due respect to your situation (a point of view I understand, and must respect, by the way), I think your situation gives you a point of view where you will sympathize with the crushed rival. And maybe you think Mitaka won't be so well for Asuna because he may not be able to recover from his own hurt. Where I agree that recovering from hurt likely makes it more difficult for Mitaka to be whole (as in well healed) in a relationship, I think the story presents us a plausible reason why we should think that Mitaka and Asuna should do fine together. Asuna and Mitaka are able to penetrate each other's comfort zone. Once Mitaka realizes that Asuna has gotten past his pretense and facade, he knows Asuna sees him for who he truly is. He knows he can be himself then. And in the process of penetrating Mitaka's outer shell, Asuna makes herself vulnerable. This Mitaka will realize and, once he's said his goodbye to Kyoko in his heart, I am sure he will take the ultimate care of Asuna. So Mitaka will allow Asuna to nurse him back to health. And that can lead his heart to value the consolation prize more than his crushed pride at the contest he lost. Addressing your situation, (something I do with the utmost care -- I beg your indulgence) Dr. Casey, I'd only say a lesson I learned the hard way. One has to care for oneself. Not that one should be completely callous towards one's rival. I think an honourable man does care about his rival. That too is part of being chivilrous. But one also has to figure one's rival can take care of himself. So as long as one doesn't hit him when he's down, or below the belt, as it were, all is fair, they say, in love and war. Present your best case, if you will, and allow the lady to make her decision. Then accept that decision, whether the victor or the defeated, with grace and charity. Then, I pray, all may be happy in the end. Good luck!
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!)
Last Edited By: GodaiMH
05/27/08 09:08 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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ryogasgirl |
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While I believe that Asuna and Mitaka have a happy life together, I still can't help but feel that Mitaka would still be chasing after Kyoko if there
wasn't that misunderstanding about her dog's pregnancy. Yeah, everything turned out for the best, but I think I still would have liked there to be a
more definitive decision on Kyoko's part which would have ended the whole rivalry. It just seemed to me that Godai won on a misunderstanding. I have to
admit, though, I'm glad he and Mitaka didn't actually go through with the fist fight to decide things. :P
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frappo |
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no, is not true for me that Godai won on a misunderstanding.
Kyoko's feelings were cleared with Mitaka in the episode with the dinner with parents and the following "kidnapping" in the hotel (make me mad each time a see it...) Probably Mitaka will not stop chasing her ("next time I'll try with a movie" why don't you try bungee jumping without rope? but he already knows for whom Kyoko's heart beats. It's a long time that he knows. In the scene after the meeting in front of the grave Godai tells Mitaka that all the matters are Kyoko's feelings. "I will take care of them" was the reply. What this means? He really don't care about it? did Kyoko have not the right to choose? This behaviour of Mitaka recur in the whole story, maybe it's he way he loves, maybe he's too selfish
Last Edited By: frappo
06/02/08 03:05 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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GodaiMH |
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Frappo writes:
Kyoko's feelings were cleared with Mitaka in the episode with the dinner with parents and the following "kidnapping" in the hotel (make me mad each time a see it...)Laughing out loud! I think I agree with Frappo that the only thing that didn't happen was Kyoko spelling it out to Mitaka, but Kyoko had made (and demonstrated) her clear choice. We see later, when Mitaka takes his leave of Kyoko, that Kyoko wishes him happiness. She likes him and valued him as a friend, and for some time her mind had considered him as a good candidate for her husband. But she did not love him, EVER. I like how Frappo put it, "he already knows for whom Kyoko's heart beats". That's true. And what's more, he knows that she knows it, and is not denying it. Only with manipulating Kyoko's kindness could he have even pulled off that trip to the Yokohama Ritz. Kyoko would not have even allowed for such a trip in the first place. Only false pretense lured her into making the trip and only Mitaka's manipulative words kept her from ending it sooner than it did. (Now I've come to appreciate the drama of these chapters/episodes, and I have come to appreciate and even like Mitaka as a character, but I confess it makes me angry as well every time I read/watch.) The only thing that the Asuna-Salade misunderstanding did was allow Mitaka to call off the heavy pursuit of Kyoko. Now I'm of the mind that Mitaka had good in him, good that he had forgotten about when he was so heavily competing to win Kyoko. In the last chapters of his pursuit of Kyoko, Mitaka had forgotten about the most important part, which was Kyoko's feelings. He was dead-set that he should not lose, that Godai should not win, and that Kyoko should be "saved". Mitaka didn't consider that Kyoko truly loved Godai and that, even if he could have somehow convinced her to change her mind, it would not have changed her heart. What he finally admits to Godai is that Kyoko loves Godai, and that's what prompts him to tell Godai that he better sure as hell get his act together in order to make Kyoko happy. Asuna's kindness allows Mitaka to no more feel sorrow over losing the contest, a contest where his pride had seen him as the white-knight-savior of Kyoko, and let that go, and finally give himself a chance to be happy.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!)
Last Edited By: GodaiMH
06/01/08 03:24 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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