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ryogasgirl |
Gas crunch |
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It's finally happened: gas has reached a record $4 a gallon in the USA. So you cutting back your driving or are you cutting back on other things like
eating out or going to movies? If you live in another country, how is gas there?
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shogun22 |
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ryogasgirl wrote: I live in the Philippines, unleaded gasoline here now costs P55 ($1.25) per liter, that would be around $4.74 a gallon.
(1 US gallon = 3.79 Liters)
Last Edited By: shogun22
06/09/08 11:51 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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GodaiMH |
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I couldn't cut back my driving if I wanted to. I live 45 minutes from my work. I already have a 4 day work week. I don't drive for just the heck of
it. I drive pretty much what I have to and no more. I do drive to my favorite state park to hike with my kids. I do not regard that as a luxury, but a
necessity. A father has to have time with his family in order to have teachable moments. And in a few years, these kids I'm going with will no longer
live with me. No gas price will keep me from doing what is necessary in order to take these valuable moments.
But if I could, I would sell my car and give up my license. Some day I hope to be able to do that. It is a crying shame that this nation has abandoned train service (outside of major metropolitan areas and the Northeast) for commuter purposes. The same politicians who complain about the potential cost for a train system being a billion or two would spend 500 to 1000 billion (yes, a trillion) on the ever growing highway systems without a wink. I'm not saying highways don't serve a purpose. But I am saying Americans could be well served to look to improving its train capabilities to the point where commuter service is a possibility for most Americans. Trains spend close to 1% of the fuel that trucks would use to haul the same amount of freight. And they do it on their own non publicly financed roads. There could be a similar efficiency if trains were employed for commuter purposes. It is the rare community that could not benefit from some kind of commuter rail service, especially if that community has rail lines to it to begin with. And where rails are no longer in service, buses could pick up the slack. The cost of improving train tracks in order to accommodate commuter trains would surely be worth the savings to many an American who could leave their cars behind. And fares on the trains should afford real savings to commuters. What is it about the American experience that necessitates everyone to own a car and have a license? My car my freedom my ass. So maybe the high price of fuel will open up some people's eyes to some options. Maybe there will be some good done to that effect. But people are going to have to ask for commuter train and bus services by name. Politicians will give what the people ask for. I have noticed one thing. I hardly ever see a truck or a van with only one occupant in them. Even many cars have more than one occupant. People along my drive to work apparently are getting the drift that they can save costs by car-pooling. I have to applaud them for that.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!) |
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andyjay |
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It is a crying shame that this nation has abandoned train service (outside of major metropolitan areas and the Northeast)
And even there they often don't go where you want. There's literally only one main rail line into San Diego. There are in fact express buses from my suburb, but they only go downtown. And I don't work downtown. I'd have to go there first, then transfer to a regular city bus, which would take probably over an hour, and my workday starts at 7:30 AM. Even in the Northeast, it's a hassle. If you live along the Long Island Sound shoreline in Connecticut you have commuter trains and express buses, but inland it's much more skeletal. |
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tsubasafan |
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I agree with you.
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Alindawyl |
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I never drive much other than to/from work and the occasional shopping trip. Usually grocery shopping.
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andyjay |
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Wow, you seem to have some better transit planning ideas than your official planners, Alin. If you would like to see those plans come to fruition, have you
ever thought about forwarding them to the local transit agency or City Hall? Who knows, they might even listen!
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off sounding sarcastic; your idea for mass transit sounds like it would be the way to go. That said, while I generally have a more supportive view of public transit, I share your cynicism regarding whether these things will ever actually come to pass. California is currently planning a bullet train network from San Diego to Sacramento via the Central Valley and the Bay Area. I think those distances are actually comparable to the southern portion of Japan's Shinkansen (San Diego to the Bay Area is about 400 miles; isn't it about the same distance from Tokyo to Osaka?). My main concern is the geography. California's topography is about as formidable as Japan's, if not more so. Mainly because on the straightest line from Los Angeles to Bakersfield are the Tehachapi Mountains, which reach about a mile in height and are very rugged. A railroad was never built along that route because of the grades; Interstate 5 follows that path, but because trains carry a lot more weight, steep grades are much more difficult for them than for road vehicles. The main north-south rail routes in California run along the coast (also very rugged, hence curvy and a lot of steep grades), and northeast into the Mojave Desert, then through the windy Tehachapi Pass (there's a famous curve there where trains often pass above themselves on a looping tunnel) and into the Valley. Given all these obstacles, the engineers would have more than enough work cut out for them. For their plans to serve as many of California's cities as possible, the mountain route would make the most sense to build, but thinking about the expenses boggles my mind. I understand there's at least one Shinkansen line that actually goes through the Japanese mountains to Niigata, so I guess a bullet through the mountains is technically feasible (although is there any speed reduction?). But as you stated Alin, a lot of California politicans, and Governor Ah-nuld, are rather resistant to spending much public money on anything worthwhile, so for all their talk, I seriously have to wonder whether this will amount to much. And I don't know how far a Democratic governor would get either, seeing how California's legislature is largely Dem and Arnie is somewhat liberal for a Republican. Sorry for boring others with all the train and geography talk, but I've always had a passion for trains, plus I edit ads for public works projects.
Last Edited By: andyjay
06/09/08 07:39 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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RanmaMoroboshi |
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andyjay wrote: I'm going to be seeing that first-hand. I live in New York City, but I will be taking the LSAT in Providence, RI on Monday. On Friday, I'll be
taking a train up there. No problem. But starting Saturday and continuing through next Tuesday, the entire Northeast Corridor Amtrak line north of New York
will be shut down while work is done a bridge the line uses. Instead of being able to take a $70 or so 10 PM train when I'm done with the test, I'll
have to take a $250 plane early the next morning so that I can get to work on time. As for how the cost of gas has affected me, it hasn't at all because I
use the extensive subway system. I'm sure I'll see it now that I've installed an AC in my apartment, though.
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Alindawyl |
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andyjay wrote: Those weren't my ideas. They were ideas that were brought up back in 2000 during the debate on light rail here. Hence my certainty that city council will not be reasonable and will once more propose a completely screwed up system. They're more enamoured with the idea of a rail system connecting San Antonio to Austin than making a decent system within the city. But of course, if you live in Austin and want to come to San Antonio via train you won't have your car with you. There has to be a decent public transit system within the city or people will just keep driving here. All hail bridges and trains to nowhere. That seems to be what your average legislature wants, rather than something we the public would, you know, use.... And don't get me started on transit agencies in Texas. There was a plan to start construction on 281 north of 1604 to turn it into a proper three-lane each way highway with frontage roads and flyover bridges for several miles. The construction was to begin in December 2003, but was put on hold and then replaced with a toll road plan. Yes, they're taking existing rights of way that were paid for with gas taxes and other highway funding sources and making toll roads out of them. The money was already budgeted for the original construction, but the legislature took it and spent it on education instead. Now of course there's nothing in the budget for that project, so it "must" be done as a toll road. I'd blame the Republicans, since the governor is a Republican and they've got a majority in the legislature, but the Democrats vote for toll roads just as much as the Republicans do. Greedy, lying bastards, the lot of them. By hook or by crook they'll get as much of our money as they can. |
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GodaiMH |
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I appreciate your points of view, and Andyjay as well. I was making a general endorsement of mass transit and light rail in general. But I certainly agree
that for it to do any good, it has to be done right.
It seems some systems are proposed with the intention to not serve the populace. Either I think the intention is that they will get voted down, or they will be held up as failures of light rail in general. Politicians can be stupid. Let's hope they get smart and figure out some systems that can actually efficiently serve the populace where they actually live and work. Urban planning in general has to come under a bit more scrutiny. Allot of these systems should have been planned long ago. In the modern era, urban planners better take into account mass transit to build up and renew communities. There's no reason the U.S. can't take advantage of what Europe and Japan already has which is modern train services that serve people in a practical every day way. We'll see if the current crunch will cause a revival of the use of trains and light rail technology. Another thing I'd like to see on account of the high price for oil is the U.S. to once again revive its nuclear power capabilities. Everyone who wants "green energy" ought to support that to the fullest. It makes no sense France produces more nuclear power per-capita than the United States. And it makes no sense for there to be a moratorium on building and licensing of nuclear power plants. It's a long term solution and won't help us in the short term, but if we're going to grow as a nation in the future, we are going to have to start building today to meet our need tomorrow. That way we would not have to use so much oil in making electricity.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!) |
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Captain Hummingbird |
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I take the bus to work. Now that I've got a new job, it's wonderful - I hop on a bus a block away from my house and 15 minutes later I'm a couple
of blocks away from work. Coming back isn't quite so nice, but still easily doable. However, I took the bus even when I had a three-transfer commute that
took over an hour. It sucked! But I don't have a car, so really, what choice do I have? Driving to my current work place isn't an option - for one
thing, downtown traffic is horrifying and I see acts of road rage on a daily basis. I don't want to put myself through that
So honey...
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ryogasgirl |
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Living in a major city is always like that
Even so, I think ahead of time what I'll be passing by and I plan out what I need to do before I go out. A little planning goes a long way. In the modern era, urban planners better take into account mass transit to build up and renew communities. There's no reason the U.S. can't take advantage of what Europe and Japan already has which is modern train services that serve people in a practical every day way.I agree. Other countries are so far ahead of us in this way. Besides the possability of nuclear power, which I agree would be a massive help, public transport would really help curb the massive amount pf pollution, especially along major roadways. I believe I heard that in Yellowstone National Park they have eco-friendly busses which are the only method of transport in parts of the park during the busy season....or maybe I have my national parks mixed up - it's possible. Eco-friendly busses in NY - now THAT'S an idea. |
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andyjay |
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That's Yosemite, actually. I haven't been there in ages, but I've heard it's a mess now with all the crowds. Well, it is just a few hours away
from the Bay Area and a day's drive from LA. Buses sure wouldn't hurt the air quality there.
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Captain Hummingbird |
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"I'm too big and important to use public transportation or ..*gasp* ... carpool."Hahaha. I'll never forget Christmas Eve last year. I went with a friend to the Pike Place Market to do some last-minute shopping, and it was packed to the brim. Some guy in his car decided he had to park directly against the market in the closest parking spaces available. This was a very bad idea. Not because of other cars, but because of swarms of pedestrians. He was stuck at a crosswalk for a full 5-10 minutes because people just kept crossing (no lights, just a stop sign). Oh, and he was throwing a fit about it, too, shaking his fists and honking. This might be mean, but I thought it was hilarious (especially when a hippie walked by and shouted 'It's a public market, DEAL WITH IT!!!'). Anybody in the Pacific Northwest knows that this extremely popular public market/tourist attraction is going to be a hot mess on Christmas Eve. Thinking you can park NEXT to the market is indicitive of either a brain injury or a huge ego. This guy clearly expected the hoardes of shoppers to stop and wait for him, in his mighty car, to roll on by unobstructed. It didn't happen. Sorry buddy So honey...
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andyjay |
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It seems some systems are proposed with the intention to not serve the populace. Either I think the intention is that they will get voted down, or they will be
held up as failures of light rail in general.
You're not too far off, Godai. Back in the late '40s a corporation called National City Lines (owned by GM and Firestone Rubber) bought almost every transit company in the US...and replaced all the streetcars with buses. It's still public transit, but shortly thereafter bus service began degrading due to lack of funds after the beginnings of the Interstate system. And of course a lot of politicans are opposed to most rudimentary improvements to public transit. For instance the state of Georgia refuses to allocate money from gas taxes to any non-road-related project, while Atlanta has some of the worst traffic and air quality in the nation. |
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ac tactics |
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well here in 79907 a proposed bridge nearly made me homeless. apparently the city thinks that we need a new bridge. not for a river or natural event, but
for a train track. a bill was proposed two times, and lucky for us it was voted down. El Paso has been doing good though. between new ethenol buses and a new
field of wind generators, we were progressing really well as a city, but suddenly I was miffed. after katrina, Iraq, and other events there suddenly plan to
run a bridge through my living room.
as for the way I'm dealing with the gas devil. Ive been training my self to be able to take my bicycle any where I need. most reccently I had to take it to the collage that I'm enrolled at I learned that any trip length by car is multiplied by 4 with a bike... and not 8. Eventually though I'm going to fit a generator and motor to my bicycle and see how it goes. does any one know how long a vehicle can be classified "experimental" until then I know I can beat rush hour. one two three
"to be or not to be" ...
there is no question we exist. alive or dead we are. |
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herbkir |
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I live in a rural area where everything is a car drive away. There's no scheduled bus service or rail service. There's a county-run jitney service that comes out our way around 7 a.m. and again around 6 p.m. to pick up or drop off riders who make reservations. It's pretty much meant to take people from outlying villages to the county seat and back. It won't take you to anyplace outside the county, and there are rural parts of the county where the jitney service won't go because of bad roads that are little more than wide dirt paths. Even so limited, the jitneys have seen a 25 percent rise in ridership since January. But many transit systems are running into a Catch 22. As ridership goes up, the cost of power for the trains and fuel for the buses goes up too, beyond the point where fares can cover the cost increases. That's already happening around the country, with transit systems begging for money to keep operating under heavy rider loads. We're seeing the bitter fruit of 30 years of short-term financial and political solutions to long-term problems, made by investors who can't see anything beyond the end of the quarter and politicians who can't see past the next election. The only thing that will change today's short-term financial and political mindsets is an economic and social catastrophe. Right now, $4 gasoline and $4.50 diesel aren't having a big impact on driving or shipping habits. Yes, a few more people are planning their outings, carpooling, consolidating loads, revamping delivery routes. But most folks are doing just what they always have done, they just whine about it more and businesses raise their retail prices if they can. Fuel will have to reach the $8-$10 per gallon strangulation level before financiers and politicians consider action, and then they'll probably just reach for a bigger Band-Aid. We are like the proverbial frog. If you take a frog out of cool water and put it in hot water, it will immediately jump out. Start with the frog in cool water and gradually raise the temperature and the frog will sit there until it cooks to death. We are like the frog. If gas jumped from $2 to $4 overnight, there'd be riots in the streets. But prices have been gradually increasing at a pace we've gotten used to, so we'll just keep driving along until we are cooked to death. (^_*)
Last Edited By: herbkir
06/11/08 01:03 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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ryogasgirl |
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We are like the proverbial frog. If you take a frog out of cool water and put it in hot water, it will immediately jump out. Start with the frog in cool water and gradually raise the temperature and the frog will sit there until it cooks to death. We are like the frog. If gas jumped from $2 to $4 overnight, there'd be riots in the streets. But prices have been gradually increasing at a pace we've gotten used to, so we'll just keep driving along until we are cooked to death. (^_*)That's a very apt analogy. Of course, if gas prices go up even 20 cents in one night people get emotional, but with the gradual 1-5 cent increases, most people have simply grumbled and dealt with it. I remember once upon a time when we were dreading the $2 mark. Now, $2 seems like an impossible dream. Of course, the older set always has their "In my day, we paid X for this, now we pay Y!", but if you look at the trend in gasoline prices over the past decade, it's truly been incredible and far-reaching. More than any other product, oil affects everyone, directly or indirectly. If it was beef, we could eat chicken. If it was cotton, we could wear synthetics. However, as of the present time, we have no viable alternative which can be quickly implimented. We're just stuck and it doesn't seem like alot of people are willing to change, even if tehy were able.. |
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andyjay |
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I'm rather conflicted about nuclear energy. Yes, it doesn't produce carbon emissions, but obviously what it does produce is MUCH worse, just in
slightly less quantities. I'm sure we all know about Chernobyl and the thousands currently dying of cancer, the abandoned ghost towns permanently stuck in
the waning days of the Soviet Union, and the fact that people in central Europe are still advised to not pick mushrooms or other wild vegetation.
What I only learned about recently was a disaster in a place called Kyshtym, Russia back in the '50s. Those jolly Soviets were literally storing nuclear waste in a dry lake bed. Then a rainstorm occurred, and it rusted into pure plutonium and doused the town in radiation. This being the USSR during the Khrushchev era, people weren't told about it, and signs were posted on nearby roads advising comrades to roll up their windows, turn off all car ventilation, and drive as fast as they could for the next 50 kilometers or so. This was of course only revealed to the West in about the '80s. Like I said, I only heard about this a couple months ago, reading Stephen King's "The Tommyknockers", in which one of the characters gives a scathing anti-nuke rant to a nuclear executive. (I gather that King isn't exactly a fan of nuclear power. The character was apparently arrested at a protest against the construction of the Seabrook Nuclear Plant in New Hampshire, which aroused a ton of controversy in New England in the early '80s.) That said, given the pressing troubles with fossil fuels and lack of will for alternatives at present, I don't think all nuclear plants should be shut down. Call me insane, but I've wondered if there could be some kind of way to dispose of nuclear waste by sending it to God's own giant incinerator--the sun. We could devise some kind of disposable rocket section, like the old Titan and Saturn rockets used in the pre-space shuttle days. |
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Rob Heinbecker |
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In my area, gas is running at about $1.30/litre. ($4.91/gallon US) Public transit is ineffective here as well. If you live in a large city, near the downtown,
then you are pretty good. Everybody else. forget it.
"The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
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GodaiMH |
Nuclear. | ||
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The U.S. has demonstrated a high level of safety capability when it comes to nuclear power. The problem with the Soviet Union and nuclear power was
communism and the treatment of their people and their people's lives and safety as secondary to the movement. I get bugged when people compare Chernobyl
to anything in the west. Chernobyl wasn't an accident, it was a disaster that would occur every time under the same conditions. If anything the Soviets
were lucky it didn't happen sooner or in a worse way. Three Mile Island is nothing like that. For instance, the safety systems worked! The reactor shut
down. Radiation was contained. But between that incident and the movie "The China Syndrome", nuclear power was ruined to a generation of Americans,
and continues to be highly controversial.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!) |
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