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GodaiMH |
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One thing I can add about my appreciation of Volume 1, is that I find Kuno to be quite funny. He starts as an austere and stoic personae and that is so
quickly stripped away and he simply never recovers. I guess one thing I can say for Ryouga is I take him seriously. Kuno seems, after chapter 6 or so, to be
a force of nature, almost like the Loons of Maison Ikkoku. And one thing he accomplishes is he's one subject Ranma and Akane can agree upon.
Regards,
GodaiMH MH = Means Married Happily.
(Image kindly edited by Hoshi Shouri. Thanks Hoshi!) |
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Hasseman |
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GodaiMH wrote:I know that you know already, what with Ranma½ being a comedy, but isn't it more or less de rigeur for The Rival in less serious (martial arts) stories to be ultimately motivated by something on that level? Not to mention that there are plenty of characters from more serious stories, both protagonists and rivals, to whom "doesn't know when to let it go", "only himself to blame" and "get over it" applies. So reacting in that way to Ryoga and the bread feud is simultaneously the intended reaction (It is a petty thing to start a feud on that level for.) and missing the point (Parodying all those completely serious characters who doesn't know when to to let it go either and whose motivations are sometimes not that much more non-petty).
"You
didn't build in a safety? A
back door to switch the thing off?" "Young lady, you fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science." - Mel and Madblood, from Narbonic by Shaenon K. Garrity |
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Rob Heinbecker |
reread | ||
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I like the concept Yoiko. Count me in.
Looking back, my feeling is that she hadn't completely decided where she wanted to go with the characters or series. That each week a new decision had been made. I wonder if she was under pressure to deliver a new series on the heels of Lum and Maison. Because of this "indecision" the stories dragged a bit. It might be the reason why the anime had been pulled off the air and retooled because the first episodes drew from the manga directly and mirrored the slow beginning. It could also explain how and why they moved up the Shampoo introductory storyline before the Azuza story.
"The saddest part of a broken heart is not the ending so much as the start." (Leslie) Feist
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Rob Heinbecker wrote: That's a really good observation. Takahashi actually said something similar to this when Animerica interviewed her at the beginning of Inuyasha... Well, I didn't realize it myself when I started Ranma ½, but I must have been under pressure to match my previous two works, and I think I was rushing. I was thinking I had to create memorable scenes as soon as possible. In that sense, I think I feel like now I'm free to do what I can do. So yeah, really good call on that Rob. Looking through the Memorial Book Interview Takahashi discusses how Ranma was initially going to behave... I originally intended for him to be a clean-cut, incredibly energetic kid who was into fighting. But, he became somewhat indecisive and picky. I think everyone has those kinds of sentiments. So I think my own feelings of that nature went right through my pen and were reflected in my drawings of Ranma. Originally, Ranma was a neater, tidier, and energetic young man. However, by the time I realized it, he became indecisive and stingy. Even so, I like the more normal Ranma too.I think that's pretty evident in the first few chapters. Ranma seems like he wants to be friends with Akane, and plays along with her wanting to spar with him. I can't imagine the cocky Ranma of later volumes behaving this way. In fact he would probably just roll his eyes and mock his opponent. *laughs* She also expressed some difficulty with Kuno, who some of you observed changed a bit... In contrast, it was difficult to understand stronger characters such as Shampoo and Kuno. After drawing Kuno two or three times, I thought, "I can't really follow him." [laughs] However, in terms of creating the story, his was a convenient existence, lining up with Happosai. He was a beneficial character in that he would force the story to move, for instance causing trouble due to his feelings being too strong.So perhaps Kuno would have played a more Mendoesque roll originally in the sense of being a little less over the top and sane, compared to being quiet as love blind and "simple" if that's the right word. Takahashi talks a bit about Ryoga, but I'll save that for next month since he didn't appear in this volume. |
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Tachihaki |
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Reading the English volume, Kuno introduces himself as "Upperclassman Kuno". I was a little surprised at how haughty that was, and so I checked the Japanese version to see if he did it there. In the Japanese he says "I'm 2nd year class E, Kuno Tatewaki." Interesting enough, they left out his first name in the English version. I'm not sure when they finally got around to saying "Tatewaki Kuno". Similarly they did the same with Dr. Tofu, and never mentioned his last name, "Ono". In fact, because of his few appearances, I don't think Viz ever mentioned his last name. I can remember finding this one a Japanese site way back when I first got online in 1998 and being somewhat skeptical if that was correct. *laughs* In the Heian and Kamakura period, samurai warriers often introduce each other like Kuno and Ranma when they first met. This is because one of purposes of duels is rasing their reputations and in that case they shout out their full names and social ranks etc. This style of fighting was called "一騎打ち, 一騎討ち(ikki-uchi)". In their first duel, Kuno said several times "It is custom...". it seems he followed fossil samurai customs. |
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ryogasgirl |
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In the Heian and Kamakura period, samurai warriers often introduce each other like Kuno and Ranma when they first met. This is because one of purposes of duels is rasing their reputations and in that case they shout out their full names and social ranks etc. This style of fighting was called "一騎打ち, 一騎討ち(ikki-uchi)". In their first duel, Kuno said several times "It is custom...". it seems he followed fossil samurai customs.Interesting, thanks for the info, Tachihaki. This fits in well with Kuno's character. He's really hung up on tradition, and as a young man obsessed with swordfighting, the fact that he's holding to this ancient way of addressing his opponant. |
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imnho |
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Yoiko Hibiki wrote:I always assumed uniforms are only optional at Furinkan High. Kuno doesn't wear one and neither does Ukyo. Yoiko Hibiki wrote:'Bloomers' were already getting phased out when I went to school and I hear it has gone extinct for some time now. |
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ac tactics |
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What noticed about Ranma's personality was that it mutates with each person he talks to. mutates or reviles. I wouldn't say evolve cause evolve implies
a growth of a good trait. Like when he talks to his dad in front of the Tendos. its like he gets rude. and his confidence starts inflating. after fighting with
Kuno, it inflates more so. its like the more people he meets the more he becomes the Ranma that we all know.
"to be or not to be" ...
there is no question we exist. alive or dead we are. |
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Hasseman |
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imnho wrote:Yes he does (but tends to change into his samurai clothes when fighting), unless I'm blocking things from later volumes out. In volume 1 he most definitively wears one.
"You
didn't build in a safety? A
back door to switch the thing off?" "Young lady, you fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science." - Mel and Madblood, from Narbonic by Shaenon K. Garrity |
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Cocou |
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ac tactics wrote: Very interesting point. I totally agree with that. Maybe the circumstances around him tend to make him chagne his attitude. Maybe if he wasn't surrounded by a hostile environment (quite difficult as we are talking about martial artists), he wouldn't be so "rude" as you correctly mention. But his jerk side is a part of him. I think he would be a jerk no matter what environment we talk about. We should also remember that most of these characters are very young. |
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Captain Hummingbird |
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Initially it was the "School of Indescriminate Grappling" which was eventually changed to "Anything Goes Martial Arts" Personally, I preferred the "School of Indescriminate Grappling". I think that it has a certain 'flair' that "Anything Goes Martial Arts" just doesn't have (plus, 'indiscriminate grappling' just sounds funny The first book is still one of my favorites. It was my very first introduction to Takahashi, and I got totally hooked Slight hijack: Shortly after I graduated from high school (1999) they finally made my school stop paddling kids. Seriously?! In 1999?! Can I ask, did you go to a private school? I can't imagine any school getting government money would be permitted to hit students (actually, I can't imagine any school getting away with it) So honey...
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ShaDHP23 |
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Well, I'm still collecting Ranma(and InuYasha, One Piece, Pick of the Litter, Dr. Slump, ect.). I haven't finished the whole thing yet, but I won't
stop til I get it all. I got book 8 recently, and hope to get 9(with the kid who likes Ukyo and dresses like a girl)and then 10(I cracked up in the middle of
the bookstore after Principle Kuno rode off on an American Flag bed drawn by reindeer), plus, I desperately want to get the books with Maomolin, Lukkosai,
Akari, the Mushrooms of Time(my favorite), Saffron, and all the others. I hope when I become a Manga Artist, I have just one who is as devoted.
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Captain Hummingbird wrote: *lol* Oh no, this was a public school. Mississippi is just a backward state to begin with. I was actually surprised when I found out paddling wasn't common outside of my area. I was living in a corporal punishment time warp. *s* |
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ShaDHP23 |
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Okay? I thought it has hilarious when Akane spanked Ranma! I couldn't stop laughing.
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Tachihaki |
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When Kuno talks about keeping both Akane and Nabiki for himself, it shows a picture of him hugging both while two creatures fly over head. This is taken from a rather famous Japanese painting, "Fujin Raijin Zu" by Tawaraya Tosatsu, and the two creatures are Raijin the god of thunder and Fujin, the Japanese god of wind (you can see him carrying his sack that contains the wind in it)Before moving to next discussion, I would like to make some comment about this picture, Fujin and Rijin. As you say, Fujin is the god of wind. But for fans of Rumiko Takahashi, Raijin, or god of thunder is more important because it is the inspiration for Lum. God of thunder are often depicted as having oni appearance. Please look carefully at his back and you will find a circulating object on his back. In Japanese legend, the god of thunder cause thunder and lightnings by beating drams circulating on his back. In UY, Kurama-hime tried to cure Ataru of his pervasiveness and throwed him into "scary woman world", where Ataru met a illusion of Lum carring drams on her back. That is apparently taken from the god of thunder. And the painter Twaraya Soutatsu belongs to Rimpa-school. |
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Yoiko Hibiki |
Ranma ½ Volume 2 | ||
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Volume 2 Chapters 9 - 17
Originally Published: November - December 1987 Tankoubon Published: April 14, 1988 Color Chapters: Showdown & Kodachi the Black Rose Re-reading this, it really makes me feel there was something of a missed opportunity in terms of the Akane, Kasumi, Dr. Tofu love triangle. When Akane told Kasumi that Dr. Tofu doesn't behave strangely when she's not around, it struck me how poinant and difficult it was for Akane. Especially when she went home to train and Ranma caught her crying. I thought that said a lot about her character, and was an interesting "first step" in their relationship, when Ranma complimented her and tried to make her feel better. It's easy to forget later on that Ranma can be somewhat decent to her at times. *lol* It just seemed that Akane got her hair cut and got over Dr. Tofu all in one chapter. But I do think her scene with Tofu when she cried was handled really well, and when small, emotional moments like that come up in the manga, I think they're always very welcome. Ryugenzawa, Ryoga's fight with Lime, etc, etc... Also, I think this is when we first started to see what kind of character Kasumi was developing into. As many people said, in the first chapter came out as pretty haughty and snobbish. It's easy to understand her not realizing Akane had feelings for Dr. Tofu, but later that aloofness seems to become more and more pronounced. I've seen some fans try to say she was "stupid", but I certainly don't think that's the case. We also get to see Ryoga for the first time. I remember reading this volume and thinking he was such a badass. He's character certainly develops in some interesting ways, at times (heck, most of the time) coming off much more sympathetically and relatable than Ranma, in my opinion (and Ranma's my favorite!) Reading this reminded me that they actually used to live near one another, which of course explains Ranma escorting Ryoga home in later volumes. I still wonder where it was they lived. Somewhere else in Tokyo I guess. It was funny to see that Ranma barely remembered Ryoga, considering how involved with one another they eventually become. Other little things that I noticed was that they both wore proper uniforms at their old school (and Ryoga didn't wear his trademark bandanna, I think there is only one other time in the manga that he's seen without it if I rememember correctly). I couldn't help but laugh when Ranma tried to give Ryoga the bread, and Ryoga complained about it being past the sell date. *lol* And when he used his bandanna's against Ranma, Ranma asked how many he was wearing. *lol* Seeing these gags introduced for the first time makes me nostalgic! When Ryoga first saw Ranma's curse, Ranma's little speech about "taking it in stride and treating everyone with kindness" was inadvertently funny to me. I just can't help but think about how big of a jerk Ranma winds up being, that lines like that when Takahashi was still fleshing out his personality come off hilariously. It says a lot about Takahashi that Ranma's jerkiness is different from the jerkiness of Ataru or Mendo before him. The other thing that impressed me was the fight between Ranma and Ryoga. I really wish the anime had handled the fights better. At times I thought they did a pretty weak job of coreographing them, leaving out a lot of cool "epic" stuff in order to simplify them. Though at the beginning of the anime, when they did this one, it was done very well. I always remember how impressed I was when Ryoga was able to lift himself and Ranma with one arm, upside down. But this was, afterall, the first manga I ever read, and seeing this sort of artwork and action was totally fresh and new to me then, so it made a very strong impression. There weren't a lot of cultural or translation notes in this volume. In the English version on page 287 and Japanese version page 102 there's a conversation between Ranma and Ryoga, followed by a stunned reaction shot of the crowd. The joke (and reaction) makes more sense in Japanese. English Version Japanese Version So yeah, it a pun using "kega" (injury) and "ke" (hair) plus the article "ga". The pun obviously falls flat with the crowd. Oh, now that I re-read it again after checking the Japanese, I see what they were doing there with the English, "bad cut" is the pun for bad haircut/bad cut/slice, injury... huh. Yeah, that's sort of funny... heh. The other cultural thing is when we first see Ryoga stop the wild board rampaging through the village, the townspeople are speaking in typical "hick" speak in the English version. The English translation says they are "500 miles from Tokyo" but the Japanese version actually says they are in Shikoku, so that's the dialect. Weirdly enough there is a blonde haired, blue eyed woman in one of the scenes, and in the Japanese version she speaks (in English no less) "Help me!" I have no idea why a foreigner is in this scene, or if there are a lot of foreigners in Shikoku. Reading this made me wonder about Ryoga's life prior to this, such as how he became a martial artist on par with Ranma. With Ranma, we know he came from a martial arts family, but for some reason I've never gotten the feeling that Ryoga's parents were martial artists. Who knows. The other thing I was unsure about was whether or not Takahashi knew Ryoga was cursed at this point. I originally would have said "no", but rereading it reminded me that he consistantly seemed to say his hatred was about more than just the bread, so perhaps she did know he was curse at this point. I guess since I had always read these in English, and the chapters of the first English volume were divided between the Furinkan High fight and the late night battle, that it always felt like two different storylines, when in actuality, it was all one storyline. So yeah, I think Takahashi probably did know she was going to have Ryoga cursed from the beginning. We also see the introduction of Kodachi at the very end. She mentions St. Hebereke, which eventually is referred to in English as "St. Hebereke aka St. Bacchus". I thought I discussed it one the website somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. Hebereke means "drunk" in Japanese, so the English translation conveys this by saying it's "St. Bacchus" the Greek god of wine. And of course, as a kid all the nudity and panty flashes were quite interesting to me! *laughs* Hard to believe I first read this when I was 12 and now I'm 27. Where have the years gone? My Japanese volume is actually a little ratty first edition from 1988. It even has that musty old smell! |
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ryogasgirl |
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My Japanese volume is actually a little ratty first edition from 1988. It even has that musty old smell!How well I know that musty old smell It was funny to see that Ranma barely remembered Ryoga, considering how involved with one another they eventually become. Other little things that I noticed was that they both wore proper uniforms at their old school (and Ryoga didn't wear his trademark bandanna, I think there is only one other time in the manga that he's seen without it if I rememember correctly).Yeah, so where DID he get his bandanas and umbrella.... Like you were saying, we know how Ranma and Genma went around China and Japan training, but how much did Ryoga learn from his parents? For the manga, he remains pretty much a loner for the better part of the story. The other thing I was unsure about was whether or not Takahashi knew Ryoga was cursed at this point. I originally would have said "no", but rereading it reminded me that he consistantly seemed to say his hatred was about more than just the bread, so perhaps she did know he was curse at this point.He may have been upset about being cursed, but he didn't know Ranma and Genma were the girl and panda until after they met again, so I guess he was upset that he was cursed during his pursuit of Ranma, but I don't know that he directly blamed Ranma for the curse. Of course, with Ryoga's temperment at this point, perhaps he did. Re-reading this, it really makes me feel there was something of a missed opportunity in terms of the Akane, Kasumi, Dr. Tofu love triangle. When Akane told Kasumi that Dr. Tofu doesn't behave strangely when she's not around, it struck me how poinant and difficult it was for Akane. Especially when she went home to train and Ranma caught her crying. I thought that said a lot about her character, and was an interesting "first step" in their relationship, when Ranma complimented her and tried to make her feel better. It's easy to forget later on that Ranma can be somewhat decent to her at times. *lol* It just seemed that Akane got her hair cut and got over Dr. Tofu all in one chapter. But I do think her scene with Tofu when she cried was handled really well, and when small, emotional moments like that come up in the manga, I think they're always very welcome. Ryugenzawa, Ryoga's fight with Lime, etc, etc...I've always thought that so much more could have been done with this as well, but after reading this, it makes me think that this unattainable crush may have just been a device to bring Akane and Ranma closer. Ranma came to see another part of Akane besides the tomboyish boy-crusher. Though I don't think it would have hurt to bring these two together - they're so nice, they deserve a happy ending too. Do you think it's possible that Takahashi knew from the beginning that she wouldn't bring Kasumi and Tofu together? |
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Tachihaki |
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The other cultural thing is when we first see Ryoga stop the wild board rampaging through the village, the townspeople are speaking in typical "hick" speak in the English version. The English translation says they are "500 miles from Tokyo" but the Japanese version actually says they are in Shikoku, so that's the dialect. Weirdly enough there is a blonde haired, blue eyed woman in one of the scenes, and in the Japanese version she speaks (in English no less) "Help me!" I have no idea why a foreigner is in this scene, or if there are a lot of foreigners in Shikoku.I went to Shikoku region this year, and I found that I can't understand their language. Japanese dialects are very different from each other. I am a Kansai dialect speaker, so not good at the standard Japanese (My Japanese accent is very different from that of the standard). And some words of the dialect are also very different from those of the standard. For example, ryogasgirl often use "ja ne" instead of "see you". But in my region "ja ne" should be "hona". "Gomen", or "sorry" is "kan'nin" in my town. So, the the way viz took was very good, I guess. I don't think there are a lot of foreigners in Shikoku, but Rumiko Takahashi is a East Japanese, so she might take the region as if Shikoku was a foreign country. Some people even say that the East and West Japan are almost different countries. So, I take some example from wikipedia to show how different the Kansai dialect is than the standard Japanese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_dialect (the Kansai dialect)->(the standard Japanese) translation by me Honma aho ya nā.->Hontouni baka da naa Chauchau chau n chau->Chauchau de wa naino de wa naika (chauchau is a dog's name) Ee toko oshiemasse!->Ii tokoro oshiete agemasuyo! |
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ryogasgirl |
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Wow I didn't know the different regions' Japanese varied so much! I suppose it is the same in many languages to different extents. There are dialects
of chinese, arabic, spanish etc. which may almost be like different languages within the same language. Really interesting info, Tachihaki thanks for sharing!
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Tachihaki |
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We also see the introduction of Kodachi at the very end. She mentions St. Hebereke, which eventually is referred to in English as "St. Hebereke aka St. Bacchus". I thought I discussed it one the website somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. Hebereke means "drunk" in Japanese, so the English translation conveys this by saying it's "St. Bacchus" the Greek god of wine.As for Kodachi, she is called sukeban in the animated adaptaion. At that time, or back in the later '80s, the sukeban deka series were very popular in Japan. There were "sukeban deka", "sukeban deka2" and "sukeban deka 3". The three protagonists actress became famous for playing the protagonists. The actress of the first series was Yuki Saito, she is also popular in this forum as a singer who sang "kanashimi yo konnichiwa", or "Hello Saddness" from "Maison Ikkoku". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukeban_Deka http://jp.youtube.com/wat...yvsAU&feature=related |
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