ryogasgirl wrote:Yeah! Before WW2 when radio or TV were not so common yet in Japan, people from each region had little access to the standard Japanese. So, my mom said that when she attended a college a long time ago, a professor in a class told his students that they had needed some interpreters to investigate some regions of Japan. Japanese military retired veterans are hired as interpreters because they were force to learn the standard language. But today all of Japanese people can understand the standard language. I have ever found some sites saying that the Kansai dialect is as different from the standard language as English is different from German. But I don't know if their suggestion is right or not.
Wow I didn't know the different regions' Japanese varied so much! I suppose it is the same in many languages to different extents. There are dialects of chinese, arabic, spanish etc. which may almost be like different languages within the same language. Really interesting info, Tachihaki thanks for sharing!
5 Kudos
Rereading Ranma ½ Part 1
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 Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 117 (11/08/08 10:36 AM) |
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 118 (11/08/08 11:27 AM) |
As for dialects, Japanese television made such videos as "if Heidi speaks the Kansai dialect". As a native Osakan, the voice actress's
performance is sucks, but funny though.
http://jp.youtube.com/wat...m6NKg&feature=related If Luffy speaks the Nagoya dialect(But I can't evaluate the performance because I'm not familiar with the dialect.) http://jp.youtube.com/wat...SMLjs&feature=related |
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Yusaku Godai |
Ranma ½ Volume 2 | ||
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Posts: 3497 (11/09/08 05:10 PM) Long Suffering Ronin |
Book 2 continues really strongly, and to me, felt even more well plotted than the first book. I think that Takahashi had finally settled on the characters
personalities around this point and we got to see some of the first interactions between the various characters that would go on to define them.
I was really curious about the accents of the locals in Ryoga's debut, so thanks Yoiko for pointing out that its Shikoku. Takahashi's got such great design skills, I really like the two page spread of Ryoga stopping the boar with his umbrella, very cinematic. Speaking of the umbrella, Ryoga really started off as a very gimmicky fighter didn't he? He's using the weighted umbrealla, the bandanas, the blade belt. His style was a lot more like what Mousse would become, plus I don't think Ryoga ever used any of these things again did he? But it works as an explanation as to why he's able to train Akane in rhythmic gymnastics, its almost like he was created as a weapons master. Re reading it I noticed that Ranma didn't seem to protest TOO much about his first time wearing girls clothes. One of my favorite jokes is the last page of chapter 10 when Ryoga says he'll destroy Ranma's happiness and Ranma turns to Akane and asks "Am I happy?" I don't know why I find that so funny. Something sort of funny I noticed: When Ryoga opens his umbrealla the translator chose the sound effect "Snikt" which is the famous sound that Wolverine's claws make when they extend in comics. The first Ryoga/Ranma fight is great, one of the best, most realistic in the series. Their rematch in the forest in a few books is even better though in my
opinion.
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 119 (11/12/08 10:40 AM) |
So yeah, it a pun using "kega" (injury) and "ke" (hair) plus the article "ga". The pun obviously falls flat with the crowd. Oh, now that I re-read it again after checking the Japanese, I see what they were doing there with the English, "bad cut" is the pun for bad haircut/bad cut/slice, injury... huh. Yeah, that's sort of funny... heh. So, do you mean English speaking fans are often unaware of this being a joke? When I got an English edition of Ranma 1/2, the first thing I did was checking out this scene. I thought translating puns is very difficult for me, so I wanted to know how professional translators do the panel. |
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Posts: 5279 (11/13/08 04:48 AM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist |
So, do you mean English speaking fans are often unaware of this being a joke? When I got an English edition of Ranma 1/2, the first thing I did was checking out this scene. I thought translating puns is very difficult for me, so I wanted to know how professional translators do the panel.I think most fans probably realized it was a joke. For some reason I just thought the English wording was a little odd, and didn't "get" the joke until I re-read it and saw the Japanese joke. Then I realized "Oh, that's why they said it that way in English." I think in the English version of the anime episode they made the pun a little clearer... it was something like "She didn't get cut, but her hair got the cut of it's life!" or something. |
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 122 (11/13/08 11:01 AM) |
"She didn't get cut, but her hair got the cut of it's life!"You say the pun contained in this sentence is clear, but I don't know how the pun is working. Maybe, "get cut" and "got the cut" are the similar phrases to each other and it sounds funny? Anyway, for me who use English as a foreign language, leaning how puns are working is very rarer, so I'm curious about it. |
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Posts: 5282 (11/17/08 07:56 PM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist |
I wanted to be sure to mention this, as it's related to our re-reading of the manga. Tachihaki was kind enough to do a translation of an interview from our
Movement magazine that talked to Kappei Yamaguchi and Megumi Hayashibara shortly after the Ranma anime began. It's a really interesting interview that
discusses how they both got started and their work on the series, the audition process, etc.
http://www.furinkan.com/f...ures/interviews/yama.html It's a great interview, and many, many, many thanks to Tachihaki for translating it for us! |
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ryogasgirl |
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Youkai
Posts: 420 (11/17/08 09:04 PM) |
What a really cool interview! It's so interesting to se what these two accomplished seiyuu were thinking as they voiced the two sides of Ranma. I thought
it was funny to see how Hayashibara-san had to really put thought into Ranma's girl-side.
Because Ranma is quite boyish, rather he is inherently a boy, I planed to play him very aggressively, shouting "Doo-eeehh", but they asked me to play girl Ranma very cute. But because he speaks boy's language, I can't help but to play him boyishly. But for my part, Ranma is a girl and I play him cute and brave. When I read the original manga, I didn't have this idea and I thought Ranma was not so different whether he was a boy or a girl. So I was very confused since "cute but brave" were not compatible for me.So - cute and brave? It sounds like Ran-chan from UY in a way; she's both cute and scary. Yamaguchi-san sounded like he had a different idea of how a seiyuu should do a voice than he got a really good piece of advice: And I think because it was my first job, he said that the important thing was conveying our own feelings rather than to try to play our roles well.Just have fun with it and be yourself - basically. You can tell when you hear Ranma's voice that Kappei took this advice to heart. He really sounds like he's just having fun. Let me add my thanks to Tachihaki for giving us this really cool interview! |
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Posts: 5298 (12/13/08 11:08 PM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist |
Volume 3 Chapters 18 - 26
Originally Published: January - March 1988 Tankoubon Published: June 18, 1988 Color Chapters: I'll See That You Lose, Darling Charlotte & A Kiss in the Rink I'm late getting to this this month, but better late than never. One of the first things I noticed was how quickly Ryoga seemed to fall for Akane, and how soon he began to take advantage of being P-chan to sneak into her bed. I guess since I read these over such a long period of time, I thought Ryoga moved a little slower. *lol* I guess not! I thought Kodachi's initial comment about finding love after being locked up in a girl's school for so long was interesting, since it seemed she was actively looking for a boyfriend. I guess I never gave much thought to what some of the characters did prior to the series, and re-reading these early volumes addresses that in small ways. The shot of Kodachi hanging from Akane's ceiling was always really memorable to me. I thought the "Lips at a Loss" (chapter 25) had some particularly good layouts, especially the first page after the title and Mikado's "Dance of Death" manuver. The end of the chapter with a little romantic tension where Ranma and Akane nearly kissed was nice. I'm not sure we see much more of that sort of playfulness between the two of them for quite awhile after this. I've said it before, I always thought that Mikado and Azusa would come back again. I think they are really interesting, unique characters and I was always somewhat surprised that Takahashi didn't revisit them (the anime did, of course). Speaking of the anime, the scene from the anime where Ranma walks in on Mikado putting on make-up before their fight was hilarious! Some cultural and translation notes: ·Kodachi always calls Ranma "Ranma-sama" in Japanese. Initially they translated this as "My Ranma", which sounds nice, but it seems that they dropped that translation after one chapter. In English I think they began just translating it as "Ranma" instead of trying to convey the formality and deference of the original Japanese. ·Tachihaki and I have discussed it privately before, but this is a good time to bring it up. If you'll notice, on top of St. Hebereke High School is something called a "matoi", which was used by firefighters (machibikeshi) in Japan (Ten's mother in Urusei Yatsura carries one as well). Kodachi's mallet is also similar to those used by traditional Japanese firefighters to break into buring homes. You can read more about this on the site. ·This chapter is where female Ranma reveals that "she" has the same name as male Ranma, much to everyone's shock. I noticed that some of the other students said "I've heard of people having the same first name and last name," and that reminded me of the recent discussion we had about the confusion that Japanese people with the same names can cause in daily conversation. ·Kolkhoz High is a weird name. I was going to look up the kanji, but it is written in katakana instead. It's a loan word from Russian which means "a collective farm". ·I thought there might be a pun in the last chapter where Ranma sees Mikado and says "Hiya, sex-obsessed neurotic." and Mikado replies "It's Mikado Sanzenin". I thought it might be a rhyming pun in Japanese, but it wasn't. (Ranma says "Yo, mansei hatsujou otoko.") Maybe it's just funny the same way it's funny in English, it's a smart-alec thing to say. |
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 138 (12/14/08 02:49 AM) |
If you'll notice, on top of St. Hebereke High School is something called a "matoi", which was used by firefighters (machibikeshi) in Japan (Ten's mother in Urusei Yatsura carries one as well). Kodachi's mallet is also similar to those used by traditional Japanese firefighters to break into buring homes.As for Ten's mother, she is very sensitive to sound of a kind of bell, which is called "hanshou(半鐘)". That was used in the Edo period to notify a fire in a city, and firefighters rushed to the site, hearing the sound of the bell. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%8A%E9%90%98 I think Kuno siblings are related to Samurai dramas at first, but my assumption was disturbed by the appearance of principal Kuno. Kolkhoz High is a weird name.I can remember that I learned about Kolkhoz and Sovhoz in junior high, so Japanese people easily associate these words with Russia or the Soviet Union. As you mentioned before, Takahashi gives some meanings to their characters' names. And this is also one of such cases. I think Takahashi wanted readers to get the idea of Russia with the high school name. Another example I come up with now, is Sentaro Daimonji. I think his name is taken from Mt. Daimonji in Kyoto because his family speaks the Kyoto dialect and Takahashi wanted readers to associate his name with Kyoto. http://www.e-kyoto.net/topics/daimonji/ Daimonji can be broken down to "dai" and "monji", which mean "the kanji character of 大". As you can see in the picture, Mt. Daimonji is famous for its festival that makes "大" kanji character with bonfires on the mountain. Pictures of Mt. Daimonji seen from a campus of Kyoto Univ. http://www.kyoto-u.ac.jp/...o/photo/list/daimonji.htm (Japanese) http://www.kyoto-u.ac.jp/...o/photo/list/daimonji.htm (English)
Last Edited By: Tachihaki
12/14/08 03:08 AM.
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ac tactics |
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Ryoko Mendo's Kuroko
Posts: 524 (12/14/08 04:39 PM) |
just one thing crossed my mind. when ranma and ryoga were "practicing" for the match, when they were writing things with the ribbons, were the
ribbons translated?
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Posts: 5299 (12/15/08 01:14 AM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist |
ac tactics wrote:They did. Viz redrew the ribbons to say "idiot" and "dummy" if I remember correctly. Tachihaki wrote:I never thought of it that way, but I think you're right. Since Russia is well known for their figure skaters, I bet that is what Takahashi had in mind! |
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 139 (12/15/08 01:47 AM) |
Kodachi's baton attack is "a thousand club, or senjuko-kombo" coming from a buddhism statue, Senju-kannon.
http://upload.wikimedia.o...han_bodhisattva_image.jpg |
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Tachihaki |
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Ronin
Posts: 140 (12/15/08 09:35 AM) |
I never thought of it that wayI think Takahashi often chose characters' names in a word-association game. For example, Tendo Family. Tendo(heven)->Souun(cloud), Kasumi(haze, mist) And cloud and Kasumi often collocate with Tanabiku of which original form is said to be "Ta + nabiku, or nabiku" ->nabiki Akane means red dark and this color collocates with sky. あかね色の空 (ex. The setting sun dyded the mountains dark red (akane). I took this example from my dictionary). Examples of Shampoo, moose and etc. are very clear. |
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kal915 |
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Sesshomaru's Toadie
Posts: 8 (12/18/08 05:49 PM) |
Yoiko Hibiki wrote: I just read that part, and saw that the ribbons say "worn dog"? Is it different versions? |
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ryogasgirl |
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Youkai
Posts: 446 (12/18/08 10:25 PM) |
·Tachihaki and I have discussed it privately before, but this is a good time to bring it up. If you'll notice, on top of St. Hebereke High School is something called a "matoi", which was used by firefighters (machibikeshi) in Japan (Ten's mother in Urusei Yatsura carries one as well). Kodachi's mallet is also similar to those used by traditional Japanese firefighters to break into buring homes. You can read more about this on the site.Ah yes, I thought that thing looked familiar. So...what implications does this have for a gymnastics-obsessed girl? She's got a fiery spirit and is difficult to control, I suppose. I've said it before, I always thought that Mikado and Azusa would come back again. I think they are really interesting, unique characters and I was always somewhat surprised that Takahashi didn't revisit them (the anime did, of course). Speaking of the anime, the scene from the anime where Ranma walks in on Mikado putting on make-up before their fight was hilarious!Oh...Azusa  I remember thinking how rediculously spoiled she was when I first read it. I wanted to take her collection of treasures and burn the
whole darn thing. -- Okay enough venting.
And oh, the kiss...yeah THE kiss. I thought Ranma was going to have a total meltdown after that. It's interesting that they not only translate dialogue, but also ribbonsac tactics wrote:They did. Viz redrew the ribbons to say "idiot" and "dummy" if I remember correctly. Kodachi always calls Ranma "Ranma-sama" in Japanese. Initially they translated this as "My Ranma", which sounds nice, but it seems that they dropped that translation after one chapter. In English I think they began just translating it as "Ranma" instead of trying to convey the formality and deference of the original Japanese.There's a big difference between Ranma-sama and Ranma I don't even think my Ranma is the best way to say it, though I guess it does the job well enough. I think you lose something when you don't capture the whole feel of what Kodachi is saying with the honorific - it adds another level to the crazy  . Was anyone else surprised to find that Kodachi and Kuno were siblings? After it was revealed, it made sense.
Thinking back on the first time I read this, I remember how fresh and new the relationships of these characters were. Now, I can't imagine Tatewaki without Kodachi, but I remember looking at Kuno differently when I saw him with his sister. I thought "Wow, his whole family must be off to some extent." And, yeah, they are. He's using the weighted umbrealla, the bandanas, the blade belt. His style was a lot more like what Mousse would become, plus I don't think Ryoga ever used any of these things again did he?He certainly didn't use the belt or bandana again, come to think of it, though he may have used to umbrella again as a shield at some point, maybe not. As to why these things only lasted one fight, I guess Takahashi just decided to make him more of an equal to Ranma and the 'gimmicky' stuff just seemed a little cheesy for what Ryoga would become. Or perhaps Ryoga decided that he needed to work more on the fundamentals of martial arts and leave the props for someone else. Who knows. Ryoga really comes on strong here, doesn't he? - And I don't just mean his physical strength. He's just itching for a fight and he's hell-bent on destroying Ranma - a very single-minded individual. I didn't really become the Ryoga fangirl I am until we begin to see his softer, shyer side later. After he's failed to tell Akane several times that he loves her, you have to feel sorry for the guy. I don't know why, but the becoming P-chan just to sleep with Akane never really bothered me, though I guess it should have. He's such a sweet, romantic person, that it didn't seem perverted like it would have if it was Happy or Kuno sleeping with her. |
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Yusaku Godai |
Ranma 1/2 Volume 3 | ||
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Posts: 3535 (12/18/08 11:08 PM) Long Suffering Ronin |
One of the first things I noticed was how quickly Ryoga seemed to fall for Akane, and how soon he began to take advantage of being P-chan to sneak into her bed. I noticed that too, and initially I thought I had skipped a chapter or something. I remember it being a bit more spelled out in the anime that Ryoga had
fallen in love with Akane. Wasn't it something about her stepping on his nose and then taking care of him or something? I remember it being expanded upon
at any rate...
Did we talk about "St. Baccus" last time? Its really St. Hebereke right? That seems like a terribly lazy translation to me. Because Baccus is Greek and....ugh, just a messy choice by Viz I think. Why is it SAINT Hebereke anyway? Where does the saint part come into the joke? What is Ranma saying after he's been awake all night fighting Ryoga? In the Viz version he says "Pro noblem" and lots of other jumbled
variations on "no problem." Also, do Kodachi and her brother speak in the same formal manner or is it different?
The Kodachi/Ranma match is one of my favorites. Its really well paced and builds and builds exceptionally well. Ranma does something really impressive,
Kodachi counters it, Ranma counters, etc. etc. until you finally have the entire ring moving, Ranma ripping up the mat, and then both girls having to fight on
the ring posts. A really terrific fight.
From there its the Charlotte Cup arc and the introduction of Mikado and Azusa. I noticed that Mikado is referred to as "sex obsessed" and a "pervert" an awful lot, and I guess I'd forgotten about this. But he doesn't really come across as THAT much of a perv to me. Is that an accurate translation from the Japanese? Also, I was curious about how Azusa speaks in Japanese, and how her cutesy talk was originally presented. Yoiko mentioned it, but I noticed it too, that Takahashi's art for those chapters had a few really great two page spreads with the Golden Pair's attacks. Those really held up well. And oh, the kiss...yeah THE kiss. I thought Ranma was going to have a total meltdown after that. The whole business with Ranma being kissed and Mikado trying to kiss Akane reminded me of some of the discussion of Inuyasha recently, and how some fans
were unhappy that Takahashi never showed Inuyasha and Kagome kiss. Ranma and Akane never really kiss either, nor do Lum and Ataru.... I think perhaps this
could be seen as a comment by Takahashi on the place of romantic love in her series. Comedy comes first with her, as she'd rather show two people kiss for
its comic value rather than as an expression of love between the two. I think the fact that she doesn't use kissing to illustrate the love between Ranma
and Akane, Inuyasha and Kagome, etc. means that she finds other ways to show it.... she doesn't take the "easy way out" per se.
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Yoiko Hibiki |
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Posts: 5300 (12/18/08 11:40 PM) Anything-Goes Martial Artist |
Yusaku Godai wrote:St Baccus was Viz's way of explaining that Hebereke means "drunkard" in Japanese. I can't really think of a better way to do it. That's a tough pun to convey. As for the "Saint" part, that's in the original Japanese, 聖へべれけ. Since it's a girl's school I think it's a reference to Catholic schools often being "Saint XXX". St. Mary's, St. Francis, etc. |
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ryogasgirl |
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Youkai
Posts: 448 (12/18/08 11:49 PM) |
I don't know how many of you have known people who attended a catholic school, or maybe you attended one yourself, but there is a big one in my city and
let me tell you, the girls in the school are notorious for inappropriate behaviour of all kinds from underage drinking to drugs to getting pregnant. It made me
wonder why someone would pay the tuition to send their child there. Though, maybe it was just the girls I knew.
Needless to say the St. Baccus/St Hebereke
name for the school seemed appropriate to me. Of course, the girls at St Hebereke aren't up to those sorts of things, Kodachi has her own brand of mischief
and obsession one could associate with the same kind of rebellious behaviour.
Last Edited By: ryogasgirl
12/18/08 11:52 PM.
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Yusaku Godai |
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Posts: 3538 (12/19/08 12:32 AM) Long Suffering Ronin |
Ah catholic schoolgirls! hahaha
So I wonder.....even if it is a fictional saint, does that mean that St. Hebereke's would be a catholic girl's school? Are there catholic schools in Japan? When I visited Ebisu I noticed a lot of Christian churches and centers in one concentrated area. |
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. It flows better for the English speaker that way instead of
having the original art and then a liner note. Although that is one of many reasons why it's good to collect the original japanese versions as well, even
if you don't read japanese - after flipping, color pages which may have been collected in black and white etc, sometimes there can be a good bit of
difference.
